Shoulder position in Down Dog (& Child's Pose)?

[Judith L]

Lately, my shoulders have bothered me when I go into Child's Pose with arms stretched out in front and I'd like to understand why that is and would appreciate any advice on that.... but my main question is about Down Dog.

I have just reviewed several dvds and many books on how to work the shoulders in Down Dog and they seem to conflict or even, in the case of one book to contradict themselves. For example, in BB's JIP he says "rotating your arms so the pits of your elbows face each other. Imagine you have two pickle jars, one beneath each of your palms: open the right one in a clockwise direction, the left counterclockwise, without moving your hands."

Now, before I do anything, the pits of my elbows are almost facing the ceiling, so to get them to face each other I have to rotate my arms as if I were moving the imaginary right jar counterclockwise, and the left one clockwise.

John Friend in his Alignment video also says the inside creases of the elbows should face each other but almost everything else gives directions that would get mine looking even further apart. Am I just misshapen or what (be polite)?

[PamelaP]

72 hours and no yoginis in sight...?

[SharonNYC]

I didn't see this thread -- don't know why. Thanks Pam for bringing it up again.

I hope one of the more experienced yoginis will come along and attempt an answer -- but this is a hard one to tackle. First, as Judith says, instructions sometimes seem to contradict each other -- and there are many ways of describing and imaging the engagement of the shoulders. And some styles have varying approaches -- like the Forrest wrap, engaging the chest and the anusara shrug and melt.

Here's a good article by Barbara Benagh on this issue:

http://www.yogajournal.com/practice/626_1.cfm

Miriam Austen's Cool Yoga Tricks has some tips for maintaining an external rotation in your upper arms. There is also an inner rotation from the hands. I'm not going to trust myself to even attempt to articulate the fine points -- my powers of articulation simply aren't up to trying to make any of this clear.

What is clear is that downward dog is such a key pose for very good reason -- there's room for infinite development.

[KarenP]

Judith, I'm not a yogini and am not really into yoga in a big way. I've gotten conflicting advice on alignment for downward dog, including some of the ones Sharon mentioned. Here's the thing, though. Your shoulders have begun to hurt. Something is not working for you. Taking a weightlifting approach, you may want to go for more external rotation in your shoulders to see if that alleviates some of the pain. BTW, where exactly do your shoulders hurt?

[SharonNYC]

Originally Posted by KarenP

Taking a weightlifting approach, you may want to go for more external rotation in your shoulders to see if that alleviates some of the pain. BTW, where exactly do your shoulders hurt?

The Miriam Austen book shows a way of using athletic tape to wrap the upper arms to help maintain the external rotation. I haven't tried it, but it is hard to maintain that rotation through a 2 min. downward dog -- at least for me with my shoulder injury. Practice, practice, practice and continual attention to adjustment in the pose is crucial.

I also wonder if doing dolphin instead now and then might be a different way to work the shoulders into position.

Karen's right -- shoulder pain should be taken seriously.

ETA: Do your elbows hyper-extend? That could really complicate getting the appropriate support in your dog.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by Judith L

I have just reviewed several dvds and many books on how to work the shoulders in Down Dog and they seem to conflict or even, in the case of one book to contradict themselves. For example, in BB's JIP he says "rotating your arms so the pits of your elbows face each other. Imagine you have two pickle jars, one beneath each of your palms: open the right one in a clockwise direction, the left counterclockwise, without moving your hands."

Can you imagine doing this with JUST your shoulders, not any other part of your arms? It would be a really small movement, almost imagined rather than actual, but that way, you could still have the inside of your elbows facing each other and focus on rotating just your shoulders. Just a thought!

[Lianne]

Judith - how does this work for you:

Keep the mounds of the big fingers glued to the floor as you try to move your shoulder blades apart - spreading your wings, as it were. And forget about your inner elbows for now.

[dnk]

I get the inner elbows cue, but my arms are very hyperextended, so that's not going to happen. (If you're hyperextended like I am, try bending your elbows just a bit so you don't lock out.) I try to think of pulling my shoulder blades towards my hips (hips towards the ceiling) while rotating the tops of my shoulders just a bit. This helps expand my chest just enough to make it easier to pull my chest towards my thighs.

HTH,
Deb

[KarenP]

Originally Posted by Lianne

Keep the mounds of the big fingers glued to the floor as you try to move your shoulder blades apart - spreading your wings, as it were. And forget about your inner elbows for now.

Lianne, that sounds like internally rotation the shoulders to me. Is that what your mean?

[Lianne]

No, Karen, - that is not what I was going for - I want external rotation - shoulder blades moving down and apart, at the same time keeping the hands grounded. I was trying to get the focus away from the elbows and trying to seperate the arm movement from the shoulder movement. Interesting (and good) though, to know you took it the other way. I usually teach this one by physically moving peoples shoulders, I think it's a tough movement to get using words only.