Article Link Tracy Anderson's 5 (Surprising) Workout Rules - Page 14

Nuggie's Auntie · 03-24-16, 04:37 PM

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Originally Posted by kalliope999

Yeah, that's a perfect example of her shooting her mouth off without thinking carefully. I'll bet, though, that she HAS seen enough women crying about not fitting into their pants due to thigh size from spin class to have noticed the pattern. Her mistake, to me, is in assuming it says something across the board for all women instead of only the self-selected segment who ends up coming to her after spin doesn't give them the results they want. Saying that all women shouldn't spin, or putting a random percentage point on it (98% of women will bulk completely? Hmm...), or implying that what will definitely "happen to your muscles" isn't worth it for everyone...Well.

She uses language of absolutes, and you're right, it shows a lack of scientific thinking or training.

Exactly.

txhsmom · 03-24-16, 05:29 PM

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Originally Posted by kalliope999

I think this is very tricky territory, and people's reactions are so personal. I'm not sure I can even make good sense of this and what I think, but I'll try.

I'm definitely against shaming people, and their bodies. But I'm not sure how we can freely voice our opinions if merely stating them means we're shaming someone. I think it can be a fine line, and it sometimes depends on the strength of the language and the way things are said. For instance, I don't think men who are body builders are attractive, and I don't like super-low body fat cut guys either, but I really, really, don't think saying so means I'm shaming them. I'm just saying I don't find it attractive. If I said they were sad for wanting to look that way, or that they were lesser people because of their appearance, or that they didn't value the important things in life because they spent too much time on their bodies, or that they looked gross, then that would be a different story. That would be shaming (in my opinion).

Even if it's a distasteful one, saying that one thinks women who lift weights can look masculine (to them) is technically just an opinion. Saying that one wants to look softer and "more feminine" is just a preference. Just like wanting to have cut abs is a preference, and saying that "skinny fat" or "soft and unmuscular" is unattractive is an opinion. ETA: We should be able to say "that's not a look I care for, but I fully support your desire for it, and your appreciation of it."

Saying that "she really should work on herself and lose some weight" is shaming someone. Saying that heavy people are disgusting is rude and is shaming them! And, saying that women who care about their appearances are shallow and that the only virtuous reasons to work out are health and fitness reasons (this sentiment definitely creeps into conversations, even here!), is shaming them.

I guess I'm one of the weird thick-skinned ones who isn't too bothered by the comment you quoted, Chomper, and would probably see it as camaraderie on tackling "the issue of my butt". After all, I'd hired her to stress about it and "solve my problem!" I'd probably be all tongue-in-cheek, saying, "good! Tell me what you came up with! What should we try next?" (ETA: A stranger saying it, or someone I didn't have a lighthearted and friendly relationship with saying it, would be inappropriate, though. So again, I guess I'm all about the context.)

Not sure if this comes across all right, or if it digs myself into a hole and makes me seem horrible.

I'm basically of the opinion that people should be kind to each other and not say mean things, but that people can (and do, silently at least) make judgments and have opinions about things and people and appearances, and that's natural, and okay.

Amen, sister! I think everyone could do with thicker skin these days.

Carol

Chomper · 03-24-16, 05:41 PM

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Originally Posted by kalliope999

I think this is very tricky territory, and people's reactions are so personal. I'm not sure I can even make good sense of this and what I think, but I'll try.

I'm definitely against shaming people, and their bodies. But I'm not sure how we can freely voice our opinions if merely stating them means we're shaming someone.

Even if it's a distasteful one, saying that one thinks women who lift weights can look masculine (to them) is technically just an opinion. Saying that one wants to look softer and "more feminine" is just a preference. Just like wanting to have cut abs is a preference, and saying that "skinny fat" or "soft and unmuscular" is unattractive is an opinion. ETA: We should be able to say "that's not a look I care for, but I fully support your desire for it, and your appreciation of it."

Not sure if this comes across all right, or if it digs myself into a hole and makes me seem horrible.

I'm basically of the opinion that people should be kind to each other and not say mean things, but that people can (and do, silently at least) make judgments and have opinions about things and people and appearances, and that's natural, and okay.

Ok, but the context of TA saying heavy weights create muscles that make women look masculine is that she is a fitness professional saying it to clients and potential customers. It's also a blanket statement that presumes a definition of femininity that is problematic, but if my mom says it (and she has! Lol) I just shrug my shoulders. When someone who trains people for a living says it, I have a problem.

I don't think anybody who has posted here is a horrible person, least of all you. I just wanted to point out that while you might not think she says insensitive things, it's presumptuous to assume that because you wouldn't be offended or hurt, that nobody would. If a reasonable person could find that comment insensitive (so it doesn't have to even rise to the level of offensive), then she probably does say insensitive things. Of course we all put our foot in our mouths, and this whole part of the conversation is such a tangent!

The body shaming comment I made was more about reacting to the image macro you mentioned comparing butts. I think it stinks. But I do think there is a difference between "women with muscles look masculine" which veers strongly into body shaming territory for me and "I feel masculine when I weight train and my muscles get bigger" which is an expression of a personal experience and a statement of preference.

LynnO · 03-24-16, 05:48 PM

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Originally Posted by kalliope999

I'm definitely against shaming people, and their bodies. But I'm not sure how we can freely voice our opinions if merely stating them means we're shaming someone. snip...

Even if it's a distasteful one, saying that one thinks women who lift weights can look masculine (to them) is technically just an opinion. Saying that one wants to look softer and "more feminine" is just a preference. Just like wanting to have cut abs is a preference, and saying that "skinny fat" or "soft and unmuscular" is unattractive is an opinion. ETA: We should be able to say "that's not a look I care for, but I fully support your desire for it, and your appreciation of it."

.

Kalliope you have written many thoughtful comments here and I've skimmed them. My comments below general and I haven't read closely enough because work is so busy, but this is an interesting topic as always.

I just really don't see how in any such way saying a woman looks masculine isn't a criticism (with a few exceptions). While, it certainly is an opinion, so is telling someone you think they are ugly. Why are we always commenting on how women (and sometimes men) look?

Talking about how one would prefer themselves to look is another story, but perhaps we could all be more polite about it. People seem more thin skinned because we, as a society, have taken pleasure in losing our filter. Prior to the internet, there were still one or two really mean people who seemed to take pleasure in cruel comments, but you didn't run across them because we were exposed to fewer people.

Chomper · 03-24-16, 06:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Nuggie's Auntie

Oh good grief, that's ridiculous!

I agree. Is that the Classical Stretch lady? She's not really on my radar. If I had seen her saying (only body builders should use weights) that I would have posted about it.

Chomper · 03-24-16, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by cherimac

I read the book and putting down Barbie weights is a repeated theme, IIRC. It's been several years since I read it.

That really sounds dreadful! I'm glad I didn't read it. I have their newest book and don't recall anything that obnoxious.

It's been on my mind lately with the elections coming especially and everyone talking about them how many people who one would think want to convince others of their way of seeing things express it in such off-putting ways that it is almost completely self defeating. I don't want to get into details, but even people who are in the same general political spectrum are off putting to me, making claims that are ridiculous and placing blame where it doesn't belong. It is a shame.

cherimac · 03-24-16, 08:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Chomper

That really sounds dreadful! I'm glad I didn't read it. I have their newest book and don't recall anything that obnoxious.

It's been on my mind lately with the elections coming especially and everyone talking about them how many people who one would think want to convince others of their way of seeing things express it in such off-putting ways that it is almost completely self defeating. I don't want to get into details, but even people who are in the same general political spectrum are off putting to me, making claims that are ridiculous and placing blame where it doesn't belong. It is a shame.

That is so true! And a main reason I refuse to discuss politics and avoid FB more and more as election time draws nearer.

AsSweetAsSugar · 03-24-16, 09:46 PM

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