Help please - Page 4

hch · 02-08-23, 05:14 PM

Like others in this thread, I wonder about good ways involving VF itself for people seeking support about body image and related issues to find more support here (with at least some discussion held privately, if people wish to do so). Although I'm not volunteering to start or lead such an effort, I may start a thread about this question if no one else does.

Leonana · 02-08-23, 11:06 PM

I agree with Jessica Smith as a good option, but also Improved Health on you tube. Jules talks about getting stronger and gaining strength.

I have struggled with anxiety and depression too, and it sometimes sneaks up on you when you least expect it. Sending hugs your way.

Gemini2874 · 02-09-23, 11:37 AM

*trigger warning for ED/Depression talk*

Sorry for delay. I just didn't have the emotional bandwidth to respond right away. I know it's hard to talk about stuff like this but it's just going to keep affecting others unless we continue the discussion. Disordered eating and eating disorders have causes but society doesn't like to talk about that. I hope the discussion will continue because others might be going through a similar experience.

Thank you Pam, Bzar, and Sherry for your kind words of support. When you are in a dark place, it seems like you are alone and on an island. So, kindness and compassion really matter. {heart}.

Hch- thank you. Yes, I agree with you on every single point. In fact, Jane Fonda recently admitted that her bulimia was so severe that she thought she would die before age 30 and yet so many people wanted her body. I am glad and happy for you that you discovered the horrors of diet culture. I look forward to more discussions about this. Sending you good vibes and hoping your problems are over.

Diet culture tricks people into thinking they need to be thin to be healthy but it's not true. Over 95% of diets fail but people keep doing them over and over because they think they will be in the 5%. We now know that bodies are different due to genetics and health issues and it is not simply calories in/calories out. BMI wasn't even created by a doctor and the person who developed it actually said not to apply it to the population as a health marker. Even the American Medical Association, originally, voted against using BMI but got eventually overruled due to the Pharma companies pushing weight loss drugs (that ended up killing people, btw).

We live in an era unlike any era that has ever existed due to the reach of social media. Every ad and celebrity with plastic surgery is telling us that we should not get old or have wrinkles, our teeth should be glistening white, our hair should be thick; we should be thin; and our breasts and booty should be as perky as can be. It's an onslaught. Consequently, all genders are affected but it hits girls the hardest. A study found the majority of 8 years old girls engage in diet behavior. They also found that diet behavior is passed on between mother and daughter whether unintentional or not. So, the cycle continues. What if we raised our kids that they should find movement they enjoy and their bodies are amazing at whatever size they were. They can be thin or fat and still amazing as individuals because looks don't matter. For girls, it would be amazing to emphasize that they could starve themselves to fit into some arbitrary standard created by men to determine how sexually attractive and worthy they are. Or, they could be feminists and eat what they want, do what they want and only share their space with people who appreciate them. Hmmm. I wish a strong woman had steered me in the latter direction when I was young! My life would have been so much easier and more internally peaceful.

Like I said, I have worked hard to overcome diet culture and its toxic ways. But, being anti-diet and body positive/body neutral does not tend to mesh well with fitness forums or the fitness industry. Most people seem to work out to change their body or to keep their body from changing. That is antithetical to the HAES philosophy of health at every size where joyful movement and intuitive eating are central. I think the older you are, the more difficult this new way of thinking is to accept. The older generation has had it smashed into their head that to be thin is to be healthy. To be thin is to be beautiful. To be thin is to be worthy. So, they are the most inclined to try to call BS. It's kind of like if I had to walk uphill 4 miles in the snow to school than you should too kind of thinking. However, size does not determine health.

I think the majority of women and some men (whether they admit it or not) have had an eating disorder or have had an unhealthy relationship with food and/or exercise because that is what we learned from watching our mothers and listening to family members. "Oh, I'm going to eat this cake but I'll go for an extra long walk tomorrow". Or asking "Do I look fat?" when a child is present and having them internalize that fat is bad. Imagine working out with a child present and listening to the unhealthy body focused rhetoric that is on a workout tape and the messages that sends too them. The list goes on and on.

We can break the cycle but it is hard because society is geared up to try to make us fail. I remember reading something in The Beauty Myth where the author talks about whenever women get into positions of power, the backlash is always intense body scrutiny as a way to control them and make them feel worthless and insecure. Women have taken positions of power like never before in politics, jobs, etc. So, the backlash towards women's bodies has been equally severe like never before. The author points out how this pattern happens every time women become successful.

So, even someone like me who has fought this horrible thinking can still, on occasion, get triggered and fall into a depression episode. You never truly get rid of an eating disorder. You just continually work to keep it at bay so it doesn't rear its ugly head and it stays dormant...kind of like a sleeping dragon. I am feeling stronger now and am regaining my emotional strength. But, it shouldn't be such a struggle and a battle and it is quite sad that society has made it so. I have learned it is ok to not be ok but that doesn't mean I still don't feel embarrassed. I want to get to the point where I will not be embarrassed for admitting that I am struggling. Thank you to all who have offered support. I must say that it was not what I expected and that your support and kind words absolutely are helping to pull me out of a dark place. You just never know how making an effort for another can truly help them. Thanks again.

Some resources for others struggling:

Maintenance Phase (podcast start at early episodes)
Authors/Instagram follows:

Aubrey Gordon (You Just Need to Lose Weight...and What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat)- @yrfatfriend

Megan Jayne Crabbe (Body Positive Power)- @meganjaynecrabbe

I Weigh w/ Jameela Jamil- @i_weigh a radical inclusivity community

Haes by Asdah (Association for Size Diversity and Health)- @haes_by_asdah

Morit Summers-Power Lifter/strength (Big & Bold Strength Training for the Plus Size Woman)- @moritsummers

Jessie Diaz- Herrera- Dancer- @curves with moves and @freethejiggle

Martinus Evans (Slow AF Run Club)- @300poundsandrunning

Jes Baker (Things No One Tells Fat Girls: A Handbook for Unapologetic Living)- @themilitantbaker

Dr. Joy Arlene Renee Cox (Fat Girls in Black Bodies: Creating Communities of Our Own)- @freshoutofthecocoon

Jonelle Lewis (Apple Fitness Plus+ Instructor)- @jonelleyoga

Christa Janine (Alo Moves and Pop Sugar Instructor)- @christajanine

Lauren Leavell (Certified Barre Instructor/NASM Trainer/Inclusive Fitness)- @laurenleavellfitness

Body Positive Fitness (Online Fitness Studio)- @bodypositivefitness_

star117 · 02-09-23, 08:22 PM

Thanks for this wonderful post and hugs to you. I have a Misti Tripoli dvd set if you're interested let me know by PM here. I can mail tomorrow if you see this tonight and let me know.

toaster · 02-09-23, 09:32 PM

A few more resources (biased towards yoga b/c that's what I do!):

Jennifer Kreatsoulas, Yoga for Eating Disorders, @yogaforeatingdisorders

Anna Guest-Jelley, Curvy Yoga, @curvyyoga

Yoga & Body Image Coalition, @ybicoalition

Sonya Renee Taylor, The Body is Not an Apology, @thebodyisnotanapology

Gemini2874 · 02-10-23, 08:08 AM

Thank you, Star! I appreciate the support. I’m more of an indoor walker and yogi and not much of a dancer but I appreciate your kind offer!

Toaster, thanks so much for adding to the list!

Mickey12 · 02-10-23, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini2874

Thank you, Star! I appreciate the support. I’m more of an indoor walker and yogi and not much of a dancer but I appreciate your kind offer!

Toaster, thanks so much for adding to the list!

Jenny Ford is another good option for walking. She dresses modestly and speaks of being healthy - no other talk except form pointers and cuing. Her Walk Across America set is 30 minute workouts but the choreography is very basic and they can get monotonous if you do them a lot.

Gemini2874 · 02-10-23, 06:49 PM

Mickey12- thank you! I have the set and will pull it out. I also pulled out my George Foreman walks that I had forgotten about. Thanks again!

I’m going to be stepping offline for awhile (for self care reasons) but I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions and kind words.

donnamp · 02-11-23, 08:53 AM

Gemini - Please take care and return when you are ready.

I am not sure if these two instructors were mentioned above:

Lively Ladies - (on You Tube). Trish is very down to earth, and real. She has a lovely Irish accent, too. She posts 3 workouts a week - one of them is usually a weight workout, another one is a walking workout and the other is usually body weight toning with cardio. They average about 30 min. Trish talks about health not weight or diet (other than to give common sense advice about drinking water, eating plenty of whole foods, etc). I find her to be very positive.

Lucy Wyndham Read - she also focuses on health, not size or weight or appearance and she talks a bit about exercising for your mental health as well as your physical health.

Donna

hch · 02-12-23, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini2874

Hch- thank you. Yes, I agree with you on every single point. In fact, Jane Fonda recently admitted that her bulimia was so severe that she thought she would die before age 30 and yet so many people wanted her body. I am glad and happy for you that you discovered the horrors of diet culture. I look forward to more discussions about this. Sending you good vibes and hoping your problems are over.

Thank you! I hope for a time of healing and recovery for you.

Thank you, everyone who's shared resources here: I'll be looking more at them at my own pace.

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02-08-23, 05:14 PM
hch VF Supporter Join Date: Mar 2002	Like others in this thread, I wonder about good ways involving VF itself for people seeking support about body image and related issues to find more support here (with at least some discussion held privately, if people wish to do so). Although I'm not volunteering to start or lead such an effort, I may start a thread about this question if no one else does. __________________ "It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand." The Velveteen Rabbit

02-08-23, 11:06 PM
Leonana Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Arizona	I agree with Jessica Smith as a good option, but also Improved Health on you tube. Jules talks about getting stronger and gaining strength. I have struggled with anxiety and depression too, and it sometimes sneaks up on you when you least expect it. Sending hugs your way. __________________ Sherry

02-09-23, 11:37 AM
Gemini2874 VF Supporter Join Date: Feb 2021	trigger warning for ED/Depression talk Sorry for delay. I just didn't have the emotional bandwidth to respond right away. I know it's hard to talk about stuff like this but it's just going to keep affecting others unless we continue the discussion. Disordered eating and eating disorders have causes but society doesn't like to talk about that. I hope the discussion will continue because others might be going through a similar experience. Thank you Pam, Bzar, and Sherry for your kind words of support. When you are in a dark place, it seems like you are alone and on an island. So, kindness and compassion really matter. {heart}. Hch- thank you. Yes, I agree with you on every single point. In fact, Jane Fonda recently admitted that her bulimia was so severe that she thought she would die before age 30 and yet so many people wanted her body. I am glad and happy for you that you discovered the horrors of diet culture. I look forward to more discussions about this. Sending you good vibes and hoping your problems are over. Diet culture tricks people into thinking they need to be thin to be healthy but it's not true. Over 95% of diets fail but people keep doing them over and over because they think they will be in the 5%. We now know that bodies are different due to genetics and health issues and it is not simply calories in/calories out. BMI wasn't even created by a doctor and the person who developed it actually said not to apply it to the population as a health marker. Even the American Medical Association, originally, voted against using BMI but got eventually overruled due to the Pharma companies pushing weight loss drugs (that ended up killing people, btw). We live in an era unlike any era that has ever existed due to the reach of social media. Every ad and celebrity with plastic surgery is telling us that we should not get old or have wrinkles, our teeth should be glistening white, our hair should be thick; we should be thin; and our breasts and booty should be as perky as can be. It's an onslaught. Consequently, all genders are affected but it hits girls the hardest. A study found the majority of 8 years old girls engage in diet behavior. They also found that diet behavior is passed on between mother and daughter whether unintentional or not. So, the cycle continues. What if we raised our kids that they should find movement they enjoy and their bodies are amazing at whatever size they were. They can be thin or fat and still amazing as individuals because looks don't matter. For girls, it would be amazing to emphasize that they could starve themselves to fit into some arbitrary standard created by men to determine how sexually attractive and worthy they are. Or, they could be feminists and eat what they want, do what they want and only share their space with people who appreciate them. Hmmm. I wish a strong woman had steered me in the latter direction when I was young! My life would have been so much easier and more internally peaceful. Like I said, I have worked hard to overcome diet culture and its toxic ways. But, being anti-diet and body positive/body neutral does not tend to mesh well with fitness forums or the fitness industry. Most people seem to work out to change their body or to keep their body from changing. That is antithetical to the HAES philosophy of health at every size where joyful movement and intuitive eating are central. I think the older you are, the more difficult this new way of thinking is to accept. The older generation has had it smashed into their head that to be thin is to be healthy. To be thin is to be beautiful. To be thin is to be worthy. So, they are the most inclined to try to call BS. It's kind of like if I had to walk uphill 4 miles in the snow to school than you should too kind of thinking. However, size does not determine health. I think the majority of women and some men (whether they admit it or not) have had an eating disorder or have had an unhealthy relationship with food and/or exercise because that is what we learned from watching our mothers and listening to family members. "Oh, I'm going to eat this cake but I'll go for an extra long walk tomorrow". Or asking "Do I look fat?" when a child is present and having them internalize that fat is bad. Imagine working out with a child present and listening to the unhealthy body focused rhetoric that is on a workout tape and the messages that sends too them. The list goes on and on. We can break the cycle but it is hard because society is geared up to try to make us fail. I remember reading something in The Beauty Myth where the author talks about whenever women get into positions of power, the backlash is always intense body scrutiny as a way to control them and make them feel worthless and insecure. Women have taken positions of power like never before in politics, jobs, etc. So, the backlash towards women's bodies has been equally severe like never before. The author points out how this pattern happens every time women become successful. So, even someone like me who has fought this horrible thinking can still, on occasion, get triggered and fall into a depression episode. You never truly get rid of an eating disorder. You just continually work to keep it at bay so it doesn't rear its ugly head and it stays dormant...kind of like a sleeping dragon. I am feeling stronger now and am regaining my emotional strength. But, it shouldn't be such a struggle and a battle and it is quite sad that society has made it so. I have learned it is ok to not be ok but that doesn't mean I still don't feel embarrassed. I want to get to the point where I will not be embarrassed for admitting that I am struggling. Thank you to all who have offered support. I must say that it was not what I expected and that your support and kind words absolutely are helping to pull me out of a dark place. You just never know how making an effort for another can truly help them. Thanks again. Some resources for others struggling: Maintenance Phase (podcast start at early episodes) Authors/Instagram follows: Aubrey Gordon (You Just Need to Lose Weight...and What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat)- @yrfatfriend Megan Jayne Crabbe (Body Positive Power)- @meganjaynecrabbe I Weigh w/ Jameela Jamil- @i_weigh a radical inclusivity community Haes by Asdah (Association for Size Diversity and Health)- @haes_by_asdah Morit Summers-Power Lifter/strength (Big & Bold Strength Training for the Plus Size Woman)- @moritsummers Jessie Diaz- Herrera- Dancer- @curves with moves and @freethejiggle Martinus Evans (Slow AF Run Club)- @300poundsandrunning Jes Baker (Things No One Tells Fat Girls: A Handbook for Unapologetic Living)- @themilitantbaker Dr. Joy Arlene Renee Cox (Fat Girls in Black Bodies: Creating Communities of Our Own)- @freshoutofthecocoon Jonelle Lewis (Apple Fitness Plus+ Instructor)- @jonelleyoga Christa Janine (Alo Moves and Pop Sugar Instructor)- @christajanine Lauren Leavell (Certified Barre Instructor/NASM Trainer/Inclusive Fitness)- @laurenleavellfitness Body Positive Fitness (Online Fitness Studio)- @bodypositivefitness_

02-09-23, 08:22 PM
star117 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Virginia	Thanks for this wonderful post and hugs to you. I have a Misti Tripoli dvd set if you're interested let me know by PM here. I can mail tomorrow if you see this tonight and let me know.

02-09-23, 09:32 PM
toaster Exchange Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Western NY	A few more resources (biased towards yoga b/c that's what I do!): Jennifer Kreatsoulas, Yoga for Eating Disorders, @yogaforeatingdisorders Anna Guest-Jelley, Curvy Yoga, @curvyyoga Yoga & Body Image Coalition, @ybicoalition Sonya Renee Taylor, The Body is Not an Apology, @thebodyisnotanapology __________________ Beth aka Toaster (she/her) *Follow me @YogiBethC* YouTube\|Instagram\|Facebook And yes, I am Reviewer Dr. Beth on Amazon.

02-10-23, 08:08 AM
Gemini2874 VF Supporter Join Date: Feb 2021	Thank you, Star! I appreciate the support. I’m more of an indoor walker and yogi and not much of a dancer but I appreciate your kind offer! Toaster, thanks so much for adding to the list!

02-10-23, 06:49 PM
Gemini2874 VF Supporter Join Date: Feb 2021	Mickey12- thank you! I have the set and will pull it out. I also pulled out my George Foreman walks that I had forgotten about. Thanks again! I’m going to be stepping offline for awhile (for self care reasons) but I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions and kind words.

02-11-23, 08:53 AM
donnamp Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maryland, USA	Gemini - Please take care and return when you are ready. I am not sure if these two instructors were mentioned above: Lively Ladies - (on You Tube). Trish is very down to earth, and real. She has a lovely Irish accent, too. She posts 3 workouts a week - one of them is usually a weight workout, another one is a walking workout and the other is usually body weight toning with cardio. They average about 30 min. Trish talks about health not weight or diet (other than to give common sense advice about drinking water, eating plenty of whole foods, etc). I find her to be very positive. Lucy Wyndham Read - she also focuses on health, not size or weight or appearance and she talks a bit about exercising for your mental health as well as your physical health. Donna