Thinner Leaner Stronger

[hch]

Originally Posted by laurawd

Friendly reminder that VF is a diet-free talk zone.

Originally Posted by Taiga

Friendly reminder that some general topics are permitted

Per VF Guidelines:
OK - Examples of topics or comments that are general enough to stay within the guidelines:

discussions of food as fuel for workouts: for example, whether to eat anything before morning exercise, favorite "recovery" foods after grueling workouts, what do eat before/during/after a long race, etc.

On the same page, though:

Not OK - Examples of topics that would not be allowed:
Asking for or offering specific nutritional advice
Discussing experiences with a particular diet or diet program (e.g. Weight Watchers, Atkins, the Zone, Jenny Craig, whatever)
Discussing specific dietary advice given in a diet or fitness book. You may review such books for our book review section, however.
asking for or giving advice about what percentage of calories should come from fat/protein/carbs
[snip]

This thread was veering towards discussing the last one in particular. (I first typed "is veering" before I reviewed the earlier posts in this thread. A few detailed lines about the subject have disappeared.)

I can also see possibilities related to the other three quoted lines, especially "discussing specific dietary advice giving in a...fitness book." It's not the most extreme distinction, but "food as fuel for workouts" is more narrow in scope than what the book seems to be discussing, an overall dietary pattern.

[Taiga]

Originally Posted by hch

On the same page, though:



This thread was veering towards discussing the last one in particular. (I first typed "is veering" before I reviewed the earlier posts in this thread. A few detailed lines about the subject have disappeared.)

I can also see possibilities related to the other three quoted lines, especially "discussing specific dietary advice giving in a...fitness book." It's not the most extreme distinction, but "food as fuel for workouts" is more narrow in scope than what the book seems to be discussing, an overall dietary pattern.

The 2 people that posted about post workout fueling and low macronutrients (no specifics--only that it wasn't enough fuel for her) could not have been more general or respectful. Are we to be sanctioned for "veering" now? The off chance that somebody might be pondering forbidden topics? By reading this entire thread, a person could not even identify what type of dietary focus the plan has! There are no specifics. The only references were to the fuel aspects and not being adequate for her individual needs. I will need to go research this program if I want to know anything about the actual food or percentages. That is because those posting did such an excellent job at being respectful of VF rules.

IMHO, this kind of nitpicky oppression drives people away. VF is great because it throws out the extremism that can accompany dietary zeal. Do we really need the other end of that pendulum? The VF guidelines specifically say that certain related topics are acceptable. That's so that we can create interest and have intelligent conversation on topics that affect our ability to exercise. And we can say the macronutrients of a program (no percentages or even what type!) don't work for my body. This is at least enough information that someone could form questions/topics that may require private messaging or personal research.

The first reply to the OP had one VFer posting that this program sold her on post workout fueling! This might be something very valuable for seasoned exercisers and it is directly listed in the "acceptable"guidelines. Many times Vfers have recommended that post workout protein shakes can be very helpful for muscle soreness and hypertrophy. Protein is a specific macronutrient and has been recommended here numerous times. The word "macronutrient" (no percentages) is not forbidden. Giving nutrition and exercise book/program recommendations is not forbidden---we just can't discuss the specifics of the program (unless submitting it under the book review section). I think the goal is to understand that nutrition is important to health and exercise and should be discussed (per the guidelines) while at the same time limiting extremism that can contribute to psychological issues, disordered eating, flame wars etc.

I have respect for the people who just ignored these comments. It is the more hassle-free (and smart) way to proceed. But sometimes I feel like the information highway here gets more narrow by the minute and i don't care for that trend.

[bee]

Thanks for speaking up, Taiga. I, too, found the post in question to be fine and inoffensive before it was edited. I even sent a pm to the poster to thank her for reminding me how important a certain macronutrient is to fuel my workouts.

I'm glad this thread is here. I think I also bought the kindle edition of his book when it was on sale, but I'm not sure I read the whole thing -- like Sue B I may have found it a bit elementary, but.... I had no idea about his podcast so I have a few episodes downloaded to try. Thanks!

[rhbrand]

Amen Taiga!

Nothing like being treated like children who are naughty to keep people away.

Stuff like this makes me take breaks from VF and someday, I might not come back.

But I won't be here to ever type the word "macros" will I.

[hch]

Two clarifications:

Originally Posted by Taiga

Are we to be sanctioned for "veering" now? The off chance that somebody might be pondering forbidden topics?

- I meant "veering" in a somewhat different sense: "veering towards discussing the last one in particular," that one entry involving "asking for or giving advice about what percentage of calories should come from fat/protein/carbs."

In this thread, there was a mention of specific dietary numbers. The main differences from the list example were that (1) the numbers were given as amounts, not as percentages, and (2) the wording, I think, wasn't overtly posed as unsolicited "advice." I used "veering" in that narrow sense, to avoid a misconception that I was conflating what's in that list and what was actually posted.

I didn't mean that the discussion was only veering towards or approaching what moderation may consider the "diet zone." My gut sense, based on what I've seen on VF, was that one post was around the border, and another post, with those specific dietary numbers, had crossed the line. (I hadn't reported anything in this thread.)

(Also, I'm not, in my last post or this post, addressing what I personally think about VF policy or other matters like that. I don't even know what exactly happened in this thread. I'm just not surprised, because of history, that something did happen. I'd like to see some moderator explanation, though, if only for transparency. Something makes me wonder what happened, but I don't want to assume anything yet.)

- The same specific numbers are gone from this thread, but my impression was that they concerned an overall diet, not just post-workout nutrition.

In particular, I do have a good memory of the specific numbers, as I'd intended to compare them to the results of someone else's calculations. If those numbers were applied to an overall daily diet, they would fit well with other discussion online; if they were applied to a single post-workout meal, they would be startling.

[Edited to add:]

- In other words, I'm not unsympathetic to the posters in this thread. What was posted, at least what I saw, was not at all the most blatant or most annoying content ever. I've seen diet-related (and non-diet-related) posts that I would gladly report because the posters, for example, egregiously attacked others. Nothing that I did see in this thread sank to that level.

At the same time, it was the kind of talk that historically hasn't been allowed to continue much on VF. Maybe VF policy hasn't been "tested" like this for a while, but again I'm not surprised if something did catch some moderator's attention.

And yet at the same time, I'm still waiting for word on what's happened to the thread before I say more about it. I haven't heard any stories about what has really happened. If it was a moderator's deletion--well, I historically would also expect a moderator to post a warning in this case instead of simply deleting content that wasn't irredeemably offensive (such as a post that was nothing but ranting personal attacks), "dangerous" (such as a spam link), or otherwise pointless. But at this time, again, I genuinely don't know.

[desderata]

IMHO, this kind of nitpicky oppression drives people away. VF is great because it throws out the extremism that can accompany dietary zeal. Do we really need the other end of that pendulum? The VF guidelines specifically say that certain related topics are acceptable. That's so that we can create interest and have intelligent conversation on topics that affect our ability to exercise. And we can say the macronutrients of a program (no percentages or even what type!) don't work for my body. This is at least enough information that someone could form questions/topics that may require private messaging or personal research.

I agree, Taiga. Also, I'm looking at both the Thinner, Leaner, Stronger book and the workout log and appreciate hearing any experiences others have had before investing money, time and energ.

[Gibbee]

I haven't ready the book BUT there is a companion workout tracker that you can purchase at Amazon. You might find that of interest also.

[s2546]

Thank you taiga. I agree. I found all of the posts informative in fact i ordered the ebook none of the original posts were inflamatory. In fact i found it helpful! We are adults and can determine what is helpful and what is not to our own situation


sue

[fanofladyvols]

Originally Posted by rhbrand

I love that book, and I have the Year One Challenge book, both the men and women's version of it.

Thank you, Taiga for clarifying. I recommend you as a new moderator.

Rhonda, I'm pretty sure it was you who recommended I read the book ..along with a few others.

They have increased my base knowledge on how to approach my strength workouts (both pre and post ) and I have seen wonderful results from the lifestyle changes. I am enjoying my DVDs and fitness journey so much more Thank you!!

I look forward to continuing to do so from your posts ..and others on VF.

(Off to look up Year one challenge)

[rhbrand]

If I helped anyone, I am so happy!

I'm starting the Year One Challenge (again) today. I hope between it and some spinning along with tweaking my (GASP) macros, ( I said a diet word) I'll get rid of the fat that's been hanging on so long.