Are you tempted by "systems"?

[Helen S]

Originally Posted by Nuggie's Auntie

I would have gone completely nuts if I had done P90X exactly as prescribed. I subbed some, but tried to keep true to the 'spirit' of it. I typically subbed Cathe's Kick Punch and Crunch for Kenpo (IMO, KPC is much harder than Kenpo) and another fairly challenging yoga video for Yoga X, which I loathed.

I see Caligurl's point, but I think some modification is allowable without sacrificing the benefit of the 'system' as it is designed. I don't know that your body can really tell the difference between the X workouts and something that is similar and just as challenging.

I did the same thing that you did. I did not find the P90X cardio workouts to be challenging enough. Back then, I preferred something like Cathe's KPC, Debbie Burns' kickboxing, etc. instead of Kenpo. I didn't think Plyo X was intense enough either so I subbed in a Cathe interval workout. Now, I would sub in Insanity for the cardio workouts if I ever wanted to do P90X again (which I don't since I have too many other workouts to do).

I also didn't like Yoga X. Tony is not a yoga instructor. So I did yoga workouts from Baron, Bryan, Jonathan Fields, etc. Now, I would add Shiva, Eoin, or other instructors that I didn't have back then. Nobody can tell me that Tony is giving a more superior yoga workout than these yoga instructors.

I can see what Cali is saying. I guess I never really followed a system to the letter. I mostly made it better for me. For CLX, I followed the weight workouts in the same order that Debbie S. posted. Her rotation made more sense. I also took out all the isolation exercises for the shoulders since I have a rotator cuff injury so I can't go really heavy & slow for these type of exercises. I kept the shoulder presses. I also added chin-ups, pull-ups, and kettlebell work. Sometimes, I subbed in different cardio because there wasn't that many cardio choices.

Also I agree that if VFers are doing TA's Meta sculpting workouts as described but subbing in different cardio to not get bored, they are following the Meta system. Doing something like Zumba is still giving cardio benefits and working different muscles. To me, the core of the Meta Series is the sculpting work.

[Dbie]

I think the original point is still being missed. I don't read Caligurl's post as saying that you have to do the system to the letter, but the post she referred to as

Originally Posted by caligurl

not really..... you're doing several of the workouts... but with all the substitutions you are making... you're not doing the system!

is because Blackadar didn't reference any substitutions in the original quote that she was commenting on:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Go for it. I'm on a "modified" version of P90X right now and I still say I'm doing P90X. I'm just modifying it to fit my needs:

1. Dump YogaX on Thursdays for something (anything!) else.
2. No Saturday workouts
3. No Sunday workouts
4. No AbSkipper after workouts (they're already long enough!)
5. Do whatever I want during the rest weeks. For example, in this rest week, I'll do Atletica, my elliptical, Tom Holland's Total Body Workout, P90X Core Syn and Peak 10 Cardio. .

I read this as if any person were to SKIP a workout completely on Sat. Sun. and the ad on workouts 3 times a week, that person would not be doing a system.

Originally Posted by caligurl

not really..... you're doing several of the workouts... but with all the substitutions you are making... you're not doing the system!

and that's fine.... people buy them and do what they want with them.... but you can't really say you are doing the system when you are skipping or changing half of the workouts!

I may be wrong, but I don't read Caligurl's post to be negative if you consider that it was based on the initial information before the explanation of all the workouts that are being subbed in came up.

Again, this is just me, but I think subbing one hard similar type workout for another equally hard workout is one thing. But if someone were not doing 1/2 the workouts at all, they couldn't say they completed the system. That doesn't mean that they aren't accomplishing ANYTHING, but not the system. I think every day you get up and push play is an accomplishment. Only you know your fitness level and what you are willing to reach for as a goal. So if you complete 90 days of doing a workout 3 days a week, that's AWESOME, but you didn't complete P90X. Then again, in this specific instance, finding out the rest of the information AFTER the original post, that as long as you are truly substituting and not SKIPPING workouts, then its different.

I think people are being overly sensitive to whether one person's definition of "completing a system" means. No one should be able to diminish your sense of accomplishment. If you feel that you've reached a goal, then good for you! IMO this has all been based on miscommunication.

PS: I can't believe I am like the only one to LOVE YogaX!!!! I wish I could find more like it

[runnergirl]

[QUOTE=caligurl;1812460]exactly! whenever i did P90X i started on sunday so that saturday was my "rest" day since that was always the long bike ride day or paid ride day.... i remember during one rotation that i actually had a ride on sunday.... so after going out and riding my bike for 100 miles.... i had to go home and do sunday's P90X workout! that was fun![QUOTE]

Is this still doing the system if your ADDING that much more to the designed workouts in the program? I am just bringing this up because I know I would feel misled if a program showed certain results but the person was doing way more than the designed system. Also, adding more workouts could lead to overtraining or injury. Again, we all have to do what is right for our own fitness levels.

[DEEDEE]

[QUOTE=caligurl;1812460]exactly! whenever i did P90X i started on sunday so that saturday was my "rest" day since that was always the long bike ride day or paid ride day.... i remember during one rotation that i actually had a ride on sunday.... so after going out and riding my bike for 100 miles.... i had to go home and do sunday's P90X workout! that was fun!

QUOTE]

Hey caligurl,

I'm not trying to slam you or anything, but wouldn't say doing a 100 mile bike ride then doing the P90X workout of the day is not doing the system either? I mean, your P90X workout is supposed to be your core workout but you could not have possibly put as much into it as you would have had you been fresh and rested.

That being said, 100 mile bike ride then P90X???!!! Do you also wear feminum bracelets too because you sound like Wonder Woman to me! :-)

[DEEDEE]

I modify systems all the time becaue I don't care what test groups say, I make it work for me. I am right now doing an STS, Turbo Fire and Rev Abs hybrid. STS weights is the core of the rotation so I scheduled those first, then added cardio/ab days along with one rest day a week to round thing out.

I think too many systems are not complete enough. I don't have many of the STS cardio workouts and frankly I need a bit of instructor variety to keep me going. I think Turbo Fire and Rev Abs are too repetative and seriously lacking in certain areas. Doing a Turbo Fire only rotation would be like doing the same workout day after day. Rev Abs has great ab work, but that is about it.

For me creating this hybrid makes the workouts more enjoyable because I have something new or a new feel every day. I even throw in Cool It Off one day a week. I also use common sense, a Turbo Fire only rotation looks like an injury just waiting to happen...

[Lucky Star]

I understand what Caligurl's saying. IMO (and I guess hers) "doing the system" means following the rotation to the letter -- no adding, no subtracting, and no substitutions.

Using any percentage of the workouts - or even all of them - in your own way is creating your own rotation/system. And there's nothing wrong with that; it may be better, smarter and even generate far superior results! (Not to mention avoid potential overuse injuries and burnout.)

[slysam]

[QUOTE=runnergirl;1812975][QUOTE=caligurl;1812460]exactly! whenever i did P90X i started on sunday so that saturday was my "rest" day since that was always the long bike ride day or paid ride day.... i remember during one rotation that i actually had a ride on sunday.... so after going out and riding my bike for 100 miles.... i had to go home and do sunday's P90X workout! that was fun!

Is this still doing the system if your ADDING that much more to the designed workouts in the program? I am just bringing this up because I know I would feel misled if a program showed certain results but the person was doing way more than the designed system. Also, adding more workouts could lead to overtraining or injury. Again, we all have to do what is right for our own fitness levels.

Good point! Again, not saying it is wrong--we all make what we believe are the best choices for our bodies and lifestyle. But is someone complimented Caligurl on her results and asked what she was doing and she simply said "P90x"... Well her end result might be different than if she strictly followed the program without adding to it. :-) The result may be better so the person would be disappointed to find they don't get similar results without the extra cardio--or it may be worse from over training (if that is the case, just using it as an example). I do find this point a little interesting as I a someone who cannot yet get myself to strictly follow a system if it means giving up activities I already enjoy. In many cases, it seems that it would to avoid over training. I sometimes wonder whether I would get better results if I could do this, but I can't unless I am convinced it is better.

I do find it interesting and informative to hear about other's modifications to a system as that seems more doable to me and my personality and lifestyle. I don't think there is an issue with people modifying and making it their own as long as they accept credit and responsibility with whether they like the results. It is also most helpful if they are honest to others when talking about their program.

[slysam]

[QUOTE=DEEDEE;1812976]

Originally Posted by caligurl

That being said, 100 mile bike ride then P90X???!!! Do you also wear feminum bracelets too because you sound like Wonder Woman to me! :-)

Word!

[FitBoop]

Did someone follow a system if they:

1. Did all the DVDs as per the system schedule and followed the diet?

In my opinion, yes.

2. Did all of the DVDs as per the system schedule and did not follow the diet?

In my opinion, they followed the exercise portion of the system, but not the nutrition portion.

3. Did most of the DVDs but substituted other workouts or skipped workouts?

In my opinion, they did not follow the system, although their choices may have been superior (or inferior) to the recommended system workouts.


I say that I have never done a system because I have always modified and substituted workouts, or have done the workouts in a different order.

Even if you don't follow the exact recommendations of a system in terms of exercise schedule or diet, it doesn't mean that you are doing less or doing an inferior routine. I believe that my own modifications and substitutions made my own routine superior and more appropriate to my own goals and abilities.

I think it's fine to modify and substitute, and it's great that people are able to make choices that suit them better and get them closer to their goals.