Interesting Article: No pain, No gain Theory?

[ChelePA]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/30/w...eNHYv_IyduFWgw

[toaster]

I think it's really a distinction between discomfort versus pain.

It's natural for exercise to be uncomfortable, even unpleasant - any type of growth often is! But pain is not generally part of it (one exception might be PT recovery, but I can't speak to that).

My yin yoga training taught us how to distinguish between stress to the tissues versus pain. The first was characterized as a more tolerable, diffuse sensation, or what Jill Miller would call a "comfortable amount of discomfort." The "bad" pain is more sharp, shooting, sudden, burning, distinct, etc.

[adawn]

Interesting article. Some excerpts:

"If it makes you miserable, like Dr. Kennedy’s first experience with running, you’ll likely quit. If it’s too easy, on the other hand, you may find it boring — or, perhaps worse, pointless. The most committed exercisers often crave a certain amount of discomfort."

"The research, however, suggests that a post-workout high doesn’t correlate with sticking to an exercise routine long term. Instead, how you feel during the workout is a stronger predictor."

"The underlying assumption is that humans are wired to pursue pleasure and avoid suffering. Yet that’s routinely contradicted by our behaviors: eating hot chili peppers, climbing icy mountains, sweating it out in superheated saunas.

"Paul Bloom, a psychologist at the University of Toronto whose 2021 book 'The Sweet Spot' explored this paradox, suggested that an unpleasantly intense workout might serve several overlapping purposes. Not only does it feel good to stop, but pushing hard is a temporary escape from distractions and worries.

Dr. Bloom also argued that humans are not pure hedonists — we also seek meaning. And meaning, he said, is often closely linked with suffering.

"Meaningful life events, such as having children, or occupations, like being a teacher or serving in the military, often involve considerable sacrifice and struggle. Similarly, researchers have found people value IKEA furniture they’ve assembled themselves 63 percent more highly than the same furniture pre-assembled.

"...In addition to pleasure, humans seek out things like competence, mastery and self-understanding. 'You can’t get those without pushing yourself,' he said."

"Across sports, the top athletes seemed to spend about 80 percent of their training time at a relatively low effort. The other 20 percent was very hard. This 'polarized' training distribution, as it has come to be known, enabled athletes to rack up large quantities of training without burning themselves out while still reaping the benefits of high-intensity workouts.

"This 80/20 split allows professionals and weekend warriors alike to balance pleasure and meaning."

[ChelePA]

Originally Posted by toaster

I think it's really a distinction between discomfort versus pain.

It's natural for exercise to be uncomfortable, even unpleasant - any type of growth often is! But pain is not generally part of it (one exception might be PT recovery, but I can't speak to that).

My yin yoga training taught us how to distinguish between stress to the tissues versus pain. The first was characterized as a more tolerable, diffuse sensation, or what Jill Miller would call a "comfortable amount of discomfort." The "bad" pain is more sharp, shooting, sudden, burning, distinct, etc.

Agree!!! I was surprised that elite athletes train at a lower level 80% of the time. And go to the max 20%.

[toaster]

Originally Posted by ChelePA

Agree!!! I was surprised that elite athletes train at a lower level 80% of the time. And go to the max 20%.

Yes!

And adawn, similar to your comments, when I trained for a 5k, people told me I would "love" running. I wish they didn't - I hated it before and I hated it after! But I had a goal and am glad I met that goal; meeting the goal never involved loving or even liking running for me.

[cataddict]

ITA with the distinction that toaster has pointed out. If it's unbearable pain, I will quit. For me if it's "uncomfortable" or as I think it's softened/spun into the word "challenging" then it won't become boring or tedious. I know that I feel a sense of accomplishment when I've successfully overcome a challenge, but distressed and defeated if the result is pain or injury.

Interesting that elite athletes do an 80%/20% split. Makes sense as I would think training at the max all the time would be an injury waiting to happen.

[Jane P.]

I think you need a level of base fitness (it doesn't have to be very high) and then you can start pushing yourself. In fact you may want to push yourself a bit at that point.

I don't run because of foot and ankle issues, but I've been doing Hiit workouts on a stationary bike. There is a dread factor to them. I do them anyway because it's less boring than steady state cycling. There is some pain in the muscles involved, but it doesn't last very long, and I feel that I'm doing something of value for my fitness level.

Another problem is that people go all out at first and get terrible DOMS, and then quit. You have to convince people that DOMS is temporary and not to go too hard in the beginning so the pain is tolerable.

One of my neighbors started out and asked me why she wasn't getting a runner's high. Well that doesn't happen until you're well conditioned. She expected it right away.