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Old 11-07-18, 02:45 PM  
Erica H.
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Originally Posted by Joni O View Post
They probably didn’t have a grandmother who promised to buy them a record player if they lost 10 pounds when they were in second grade - and then didn’t. Or a mother who went to a “diet doctor” and took diet pills throughout their childhood. Hard to break that mindset.
Yes, I've had an entire lifetime of eating disorders and I suspect the focus on weight/size/food/dieting from the time I was a young child is what triggered my issues. I can't remember a time when I didn't have anxiety over my body size, food eaten, calories, exercise, etc. I don't blame my family for my problems because I know their intentions were good but eating disorders have taken up so much of my one precious life. It's really sad and scary.

ETA: And I've never been "thrilled" with my reflection no matter what my size - I've been everywhere from underweight to obese.

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Old 11-07-18, 04:49 PM  
Anny
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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I feel your pain. My mother and family were/are obsessed with weight and appearance. I was put on my first diet at almost 8 years old.

I have done a lot of work and reading in the last few years to move my head away from the diet and weight and appearance driven experience. It has been so worth the work for me to be finally free from the influences that drove me for my childhood and much of my adulthood.
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Old 11-19-18, 10:52 AM  
hch
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Originally Posted by toaster View Post
Henry, I am also interested in your thoughts on the term "body positivity"--I have mixed feelings on that one myself.
The term seems to have been used for a variety of messages, some of them more or less conflicting. I'd agree with "I have mixed feelings" mostly insofar as I disagree with some possible meanings. I do largely agree with seems to be the original senses of the term, though.

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Being both a psychologist and a yoga teacher has made me VERY conscious of language.
Indeed!

I'm reminded here that even if the term "body-positive" didn't have a complicated history, the words "body" and "positive" are subject to a lot of ambiguity--like words in general. I could describe myself as "body-positive," but I'd want to be careful to clarify (even if only briefly) what I mean and what I don't mean. For example, certain instructors use the term, but they don't use it as I would.

If I use a popular phrase and tell you to "love your body," what do I mean by "love" and "body," two words that are already used in a variety of ways? I can see myself using the phrase, but if I did, here too I'd always want to be careful to explain what I mean and what I don't mean. There are interpretations of "love your body" that I wouldn't intend, such as "favor your physique, even to a point of openly considering it superior to other physiques."

When I consider the five points of this article as a starting point for more discussion, I notice that what meanings I favor for "body positivity," within the range of probable meanings, resemble what I like about the points. For example, all five points shift the emphasis from looks to other things, and I prefer meanings of "body positivity" that do likewise.
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"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."

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Old 11-19-18, 11:17 AM  
suzannaerin
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
What did Meryl Steep say a few years ago about "...how God (or nature) made you?" "Perceived" imperfections are really perfections because we are all works of nature and inherently a miracle, right?

I love listening to affirmations---one in particular goes something along the lines of loving and respecting your body because it's your oldest friend and most constant companion.

It's what's in your heart and how you treat others, when all is said is done.
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Old 11-19-18, 11:28 AM  
Pat58
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Originally Posted by Joni O View Post
They probably didn’t have a grandmother who promised to buy them a record player if they lost 10 pounds when they were in second grade - and then didn’t. Or a mother who went to a “diet doctor” and took diet pills throughout their childhood. Hard to break that mindset.
That - and "She has such a pretty face, if only she would lose weight." Those things stick like glue to a developing psyche.
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Old 11-19-18, 11:57 AM  
hch
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I love listening to affirmations---one in particular goes something along the lines of loving and respecting your body because it's your oldest friend and most constant companion.
I found this recent piece on a site that seems to have been one of the first to advance the term "body positivity."

Love First, Then Acceptance

Quote:
Up until last week, my response has generally been along the lines of, “Getting past acceptance to loving your body is possible—it’s something everyone can have. It just takes practice.”

[snip]

And then, out of the silence, I heard:

People have it backwards. We need to love our bodies first. Then comes acceptance.
The author uses a comparison that also came to my mind: we ideally don't "accept" other people first before we "love" them in a deeper way, but we sometimes treat ourselves more harshly. (This isn't a novel thought of mine. Years ago, I noticed something attributed to a Marcia Hutchinson: "If you talked to your friends the way you talk to your body, you’d have no friends left at all.")

I can easily think of a way that we do "accept" people first before we "love" them, and it's the prime example of why I earlier talked about the differing meanings of "love": the kind of "love" in which we "accept" before we "love" is narrower and more conditional.

My idea of the term "body positivity" is related to this:

Quote:
Here’s how the concept works for me: I love my body. I love it because it gives me life, plain and simple. I wouldn’t be on the planet without it. I love my body because it lets me experience some really pleasurable things. Even if I ignore its needs, my body is there for me, doing everything it can to keep me alive. It is my home. I am not separate from it. We are one.
So, then, the relationship between the self and the body, considered distinctly, can be "positive" in this openly appreciative sense and in a related sense that acknowledges our embodiment without critique or resentment. To do otherwise may be like disliking your mother if you find her unattractive.

The author also mentions other points that are worth reading. For example, without using the term "old talk," she mentions messages that she receives because is now a "post-menopausal woman."
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"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."

The Velveteen Rabbit
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Old 11-19-18, 12:16 PM  
cataddict
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Originally Posted by Joni O View Post
They probably didn’t have a grandmother who promised to buy them a record player if they lost 10 pounds when they were in second grade - and then didn’t. Or a mother who went to a “diet doctor” and took diet pills throughout their childhood. Hard to break that mindset.
Oh yes, it sounds so painfully familiar. I always felt "less" because I wasn't a pretty, thin child. My grandmother (and grandfather) made mean comments to both my mother and me about losing weight. I remember seeing my mother privately crying after she got a card from my grandfather recommending some unasked-for weight loss program. My grandparents have been gone for many years but I have worn that scar for decades and have struggled with self esteem and poor body image despite my currently slender state. It's very tough to break free from a negative childhood self image.
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Old 12-18-18, 12:38 PM  
Fidget Queen
 
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I am SOOOOO FAR BEHIND on this thread, and I apologize. I'm going to pop on and add a couple of body-positive people I follow just so that I don't forget - again - as I know I will.

I really appreciate Louise Green - her instagram handle is louisegreen_bigfitgirl. Heavy on the fact that she can be bigger and be happy and fit as heck.

For a laugh, I love Celeste Barber - her instagram handle is celestebarber (easy enough ). This is not directly fitness related, but she's so fun.

Also not directly fitness related - Taryn Brumfitt who is @bodyimagemovement loves her fitness and has created a documentary on body image, which i think is actually available on netflix now (I somehow haven't watched it yet!!!).

I follow several body positive people, but I've already strayed far from the fitness world. My own feelings about the body positive world conflict, as I tend to disagree with just about everyone on some things here and there. But, that, too, is the ultimate work in acceptance. I don't have to believe as they do 100% to get great value from what they do/say.

As I've mentioned before - I really love and appreciate British books and shows, as they put older/heavier/non-completely-plasticized women front and center often enough. I mean, a woman over the age of 25 being a love interest!!!!!! THE HORROR. Once you dive into other cultures and come back to American media, you begin to realize how hideously sexist, agist and every other -ist our culture has shoved down our throats. I do think that as America starts to consume and control international media, though, it is changing for the worse.

I like the discussion about body positivity. I think that it's hard to define because everyone has their own definition for it. This is why I despise joining "movements" and "groups" because we feel forced to take on some rigid definition of a word that doesn't suit what we're trying to accomplish or what we're feeling. I follow and get value from the body positive world while not agreeing with everything and sometimes getting plain mad. But that's my issue.
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Old 12-18-18, 04:37 PM  
susan p
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I think one thing that contributes to a positive body image is simply not to focus on your body. Sometimes I think the more obsessed we are with how we feel about our body, the worse off we are. I don't really want to love my body. I don't know what love my body means. I want to be grateful for it and appreciate it, but I don't want to spend any mental/emotional energy on what it looks like. (I DO, sometimes, but I consider that unfortunate when it happens!)

Face it, aren't most bodies are "ugly"? They are scarred and bruised and funny-shaped, with skin that has wrinkles and cellulite and wobbles. Think of a naked human as being the alien in a movie. I think we would be pretty horrifying aliens! At the same time, the people inside the bodies can be so dang beautiful and tough and strong and sensitive and just lovely.


I think focusing on what your body can do instead of what it looks like is a key to appreciating its wonder.
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Old 12-18-18, 09:45 PM  
hch
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I am SOOOOO FAR BEHIND on this thread, and I apologize. I'm going to pop on and add a couple of body-positive people I follow just so that I don't forget - again - as I know I will.
Thanks for replying! I wouldn't say that you have to apologize. (By the end of the year, I hope, I myself will have posted more replies here and more of the series of posts that I've intended to continue in this thread. During the meantime, I have been reading what other people on other sites have to say about these topics in ways that will inform my future posts.)

Soon, I'll try to look at these people.

I'll continue replying to your post in another post. For example, I'll have more about the fitness world and the world of "body positivity" (I may agree with you here quite a bit), and I hope to have read more from those people. Again, thanks!
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"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."

The Velveteen Rabbit
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