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Old 07-16-11, 05:17 PM  
counterclockwise
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: TX
Yeah, Skogg's instruction is great, and better than RKS, but even if you have Skogg and try your best to follow him, if you haven't been evaluated by a trainer, you really don't know if you have good form. Not saying you couldn't (I'm sure many do), but you don't really know. Having Skogg will probably help you along more than RKS, but having Skogg is not a guarantee that you are going to have better technique. All that said, that doesn't excuse RKS from doing a detailed-as-possible tutorial. Owen's clean instruction was so abrupt I just had to laugh...I was like what, it's over?

If you do have trouble keeping good form with KB's while watching someone on screen who doesn't (like the girls behind Owen), you could have trouble with RKS.
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Old 07-16-11, 05:20 PM  
icebergslim
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by macska View Post
On the other hand we can debate all day long if it is a good or bad thing to put for example a relative beginner through 30 min of snatches. So IMHO the set is not very good for beginners, only for folks who somewhat mastered at least the first thing about kettlebells and their form is good. Doing 20-30 min of swings or any other exercises with bad form can be very damaging.
Agree here. Which is why the 6 basic exercises for kettlebell training are highlighted in the Skogg System and highlighted to make sure your form is correct and in tact throughout the workouts. Many said, "I will get bored with only 6 exercises." Well, I say this, "You won't. Not if you up the weight and focus on making sure the form is in tact." NO BEGINNER should try doing 30 minutes of snatches, they will not make it to the end. Why? Because 9 times out of 10 they are not even snatching the kb properly to not tear up their hands. And how many times have some complained about their back hurting while performing swings? The swing is central and the first exercise anyone should master and your back should not hurt while or after performing this exercise. If it is, again, look at your form.
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Old 07-16-11, 05:22 PM  
Alan
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I think that unless you're very experienced with kettlebells it's better to rotate through the first 4 DVDs for about a month or so until you feel you've mastered them before moving onto the next set of 4 DVDs and so on. I don't know what they were thinking to suggest whizzing through the workouts one by one. There's no way a kettlebell newbie should be doing a 30 min snatch workout.
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Old 07-16-11, 05:22 PM  
icebergslim
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Originally Posted by counterclockwise View Post
Yeah, Skogg's instruction is great, and better than RKS, but even if you have Skogg and try your best to follow him, if you haven't been evaluated by a trainer, you really don't know if you have good form.
Agree here. Before I invested in kbs a few years ago, I took personal instruction by a certified trainer. Believe me, it made a world of difference and if anyone can afford it, do it before taking the plunge.
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Old 07-16-11, 05:26 PM  
counterclockwise
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
I think that unless you're very experienced with kettlebells it's better to rotate through the first 4 DVDs for about a month or so until you feel you've mastered them before moving onto the next set of 4 DVDs and so on. I don't know what they were thinking to suggest whizzing through the workouts one by one. There's no way a kettlebell newbie should be doing a 30 min snatch workout.
I think this system is great for practicing/repetition, testing yourself, mixing and matching, etc., but not necessarily using the rotation they provided. I am no expert in designing workout plans, but their rotation doesn't seem to have a real purpose. I think RKS is great for designing your own rotation (better than most on this point, in fact).

Quote:
Originally Posted by icebergslim View Post
Agree here. Before I invested in kbs a few years ago, I took personal instruction by a certified trainer. Believe me, it made a world of difference and if anyone can afford it, do it before taking the plunge.
Yep, it did for me, too.

Last edited by counterclockwise; 07-16-11 at 05:28 PM. Reason: clarifying
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Old 07-16-11, 06:23 PM  
Debbie S.
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by horusosiris View Post
I
Skogg (in 'Roots') states that even the most experienced person needs to be reminded of form and technique from time to time.
I agree 100%.

As I stated earlier, it's been months since I've worked out to a strength DVD, kettlebells included. I've been doing all of my strength workouts via paper. I'm not exactly sure when it happened (I'm think around the time I was doing CLX), but my form during the clean and press turned into the form that Skogg showed in his tutorial as not being acceptable! So I really appreciate his tutorial. It helped me get my form straight once again.

Alan, I am repeating each workout twice each week. Repeating them for two weeks would even be better. It just doesn't make sense to zip through these workouts so quickly. I'm also not seeing any real rhyme or reasons to these workouts yet. I don't think any of them are a true total body workout. Workout #4 is a total body kettlebell/bodyweight blast that clocks in at 10 minutes. I think these are just a series of drill type workouts, which again, is not a bad thing.

I kind of view these workouts along the same line as Zuzana's shorter workouts. For the long term, I think they will make good add-ons for me.
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Old 07-16-11, 08:05 PM  
icebergslim
 
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Originally Posted by Debbie S. View Post
Workout #4 is a total body kettlebell/bodyweight blast that clocks in at 10 minutes. I think these are just a series of drill type workouts, which again, is not a bad thing.

I kind of view these workouts along the same line as Zuzana's shorter workouts. For the long term, I think they will make good add-ons for me.
Good analysis. I have been using these as add ons a couple times out of the week. #8 is more on the tabata style and I really like it. I have not worked through all the workouts, since I am on a Skogg rotation and doing my 10K swings for July, but what I have done I reached a conclusion that these workouts are more paired with a rotation you are currently doing and use these workouts as add-ons. And you were right about the time length. For me 15-20 minutes is great for an add-on to a current rotation. Kinda remind me of the hoopla over the Firm Express when everyone was saying, "120.00 for 8 or 10 10-20 min workouts!!!" In looking at the RKS workouts it is just about the same time length, give or take a couple.
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Old 07-17-11, 04:56 AM  
akaAnnie
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New York
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Originally Posted by Debbie S. View Post
I'm also not seeing any real rhyme or reasons to these workouts yet. I don't think any of them are a true total body workout. Workout #4 is a total body kettlebell/bodyweight blast that clocks in at 10 minutes. I think these are just a series of drill type workouts, which again, is not a bad thing.

I kind of view these workouts along the same line as Zuzana's shorter workouts. For the long term, I think they will make good add-ons for me.
Yes! Debbie you are far more of an expert than I am, but this is what I've been feeling with these workouts. I think they will add some variety to another rotation, for me it's Skogg. I also realized yesterday that RKS is making me tired, hungry and a bit achy all over. Some how I didn't get that with Skogg-whether it's the exercises Skogg chose, the pacing or rests-I don't know. I do know I had remarkable results without being tired and hungry, some DOMS, but just enough to know I was pushing my limits. I was going to try the full RKS rotation but I'm getting a bit of dread factor so I'm going back to Skogg with a side dish of RKS. I'm not surprised that people are getting great upper body results from RKS, the volume of presses would do that as long as your shoulders hold out. I still don't quite understand how Skogg gets the results from those six exercises but for me it does. And his background exercisers know their stuff.
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Old 07-17-11, 02:55 PM  
Debbie S.
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Annie, I think you're wise to back off a bit.

I did workout #4 this morning. It definitely is a sweat-fest. I usually tack on this type of workout after my cardio workout, and this is what I did this morning. I also tacked on #3 after my cardio workout. Again, they have a Zuzana feel to me, and it makes for a good finisher.

Doug Challenge
KB rows right side-5 reps
KB rows left side-5 reps
Squat thrust with jump (no pushup)-10 reps
Pushups on toes or knees-15 reps
Swings-20 reps

Repeat as many times as possible with good form in 10 minutes. Workouts like this are meant to be challenging, so you are definitely walking a fine line of going as fast as you can while paying attention to your form. It can be quite shocking to anyone new to this time of challenge.

This is how I rate the 4 that I've done, intensity wise.

4-hardest
3-2nd hardest
1-3rd hardest
2-easy

If I were to create a rotation for the first month, I would concentrate on these 4 disc only. But for someone new to kb training, I would emphasize getting one's form down before attempting the workouts and starting the rotation.

I would use workout #4 as a fit test and have you perform the fit test before doing the first month. This would be your marker.

To rotate workouts 1,2,3, I would do something like this:
Monday-#1
Tuesday-#2

Thursday-#3
Friday-#2

Repeat weeks 2 and 3

Week 4
Monday-#1
Tuesday-#2

Thursday-#3

Saturday-#4

My guess is that RKS is a progressive program with its goal/focus on performing workout #16, the snatch workout. If this is the case, I think it would be wise to turn this program into a longer program.
__________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Have you had your daily dose?
Walking is Nature's Prozac!
Don't let anyone judge you! It's your workout. Sylwia
Don't Compare Yourself to somebody else. BE YOUR BEST! Chalene Johnson




A Spark of Hope

In memory of:
Michael Sparkman
October 11th, 2001-October 21st, 2008
Hope Fimiani
August 26th, 2006-October 13th, 2008
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Old 07-17-11, 03:05 PM  
akaAnnie
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: New York
I agree Debbie, and thanks for the rotation. What I'd like to figure out is a Skogg/RKS hybrid. Maybe instead of doing Skogg 3 or 4 do 2 and add an RKS? It would add variety but keep the Skogg magic.
I'm sure younger people can progress quickly but I know Lisa Shaffer has said that not only does muscle have to strengthen but ligaments and tendons as well and it takes time and not over doing it(as in get an injury).
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