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Old 05-24-11, 11:12 AM  
Lucky Star
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Hmm, the more I investigate Refine, the more interested I become.

Those in or near the NYC region might be curious to know Refine offers a free class for first-timers: http://www.refinemethod.com/
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Old 05-24-11, 12:05 PM  
alisoncooks
 
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... although I still enjoy barre-ish routines like Tone-Up that incorporate lunges and more traditional weights for upper body. ...
What is this?
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Old 05-24-11, 12:07 PM  
alisoncooks
 
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I just read the article....

So will this change how you guys work out?
(As I look over my collection and realize that I've been reacquiring all my barre workouts...now I'm confused...)
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Old 05-24-11, 12:15 PM  
juberann
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Very interesting article. I would love to see a Refine DVD hit the market. Much of what she wrote makes a ton of sense
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Old 05-24-11, 12:17 PM  
PhyllisG
 
Join Date: May 2005
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the article sure was successful in that it stirred interest in me to discover exactly what a Refine class is like.

Yes and that is what I imagine it was really about---Refine. You can always find someone somewhere who will dispute whatever--running, cycling, weights (heavy and/or light, more reps and less reps). Tomorrow it will be someone refuting Refine's method. There is that trainer in NYC who never lets his models do lunges or use ankle weights. Everything with a grain of salt and wait for the next "theory" to appear.
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Old 05-24-11, 12:20 PM  
Lucky Star
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What is this?
Alison this older workout went under most people's radar. No a glam production for sure but I found it very pleasant (though the music is nothing much). Here's a link to the DVD from the instructor's website: http://tone-up.com/order.htm

And here are past VF threads: http://forum.videofitness.com/showth...suesan+lazarus
http://forum.videofitness.com/showth...suesan+lazarus
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Old 05-24-11, 12:26 PM  
Lucky Star
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the article sure was successful in that it stirred interest in me to discover exactly what a Refine class is like.

Yes and that is what I imagine it was really about---Refine. You can always find someone somewhere who will dispute whatever--running, cycling, weights (heavy and/or light, more reps and less reps). Tomorrow it will be someone refuting Refine's method. There is that trainer in NYC who never lets his models do lunges or use ankle weights. Everything with a grain of salt and wait for the next "theory" to appear.
Well of course it was about Refine; that's the point. She has something to sell - big surprise! But she was an instructor at P57 and Exhale Core Fusion as well as a NYC Ballet dancer for many years so I assume she's coming with plenty of knowledge and from a solid background.

I'm not a big fan of the endless plies on the balls of the feet. Programs like The Booty Barre feel unbalanced (to me!), and I appreciate seeing what others can bring to the table.
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Old 05-24-11, 12:34 PM  
fuzzie
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Originally Posted by Lucky Star View Post
Hmm, the more I investigate Refine, the more interested I become.

Those in or near the NYC region might be curious to know Refine offers a free class for first-timers: http://www.refinemethod.com/
Refine is definitely on my (ever expanding) list of to-try classes next time I'm in NYC. If you have a chance to try a class, please let us know what it is like!



Quote:
Originally Posted by alisoncooks View Post
So will this change how you guys work out?
(As I look over my collection and realize that I've been reacquiring all my barre workouts...now I'm confused...)
Not really. As others mentioned, some of her claims are not strongly supported and it is hardly an unbiased analysis. However, I find that some observations fall in line with my own thoughts and questions regarding certain barre workouts and the best way to integrate barre into my fitness routine.

In particular, I tend to agree with her observation that barre workouts sometimes overuse certain positions or moves, like work in relevé (this is something that really bothered me with Booty Barre Arms & Abs). She does not talk about the "tuck" position but it is another aspect of barre that I have been thinking about and I am leaning towards workouts with a more balanced approach, like Dailey Method. I also prefer to balance out all the "small, precise movement" with more fluid, large ROM workouts so that my muscles are challenged in different ways and more functionally.

Still a committed barre-ista, but a critical one
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Old 05-24-11, 12:38 PM  
slysam
 
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Originally Posted by alisoncooks View Post
I just read the article....

So will this change how you guys work out?
(As I look over my collection and realize that I've been reacquiring all my barre workouts...now I'm confused...)
Interesting read, but it probably won't change how I work out. I don't do barre exclusively anyway and mix it with other types of exercise including strength training, kettlebells, dance, stretching, etc. I think there may be some fair criticisms to make about many barre workouts, but some of these do not really seem to apply to the workouts I've followed. Like criticizing the lack of weights used--while you would not use very heavy weights in a barre workout but in some like p57, squeeze and most likely others you are encouraged to increase the weight as it gets easier. Sure it is more endurance than strength for non-beginners. And the comment about bodyweight exercises being good for beginners but you cannot increase the resistance... That is just her opinion. There are ways to make bodyweight exercises progressively more challenging (the book You Are Your Own Gy explains this and some of the body weight exercises I've seen in p57, core fusion, etc remind me of some in this book). I don't really think strait legged push-ups, planks with one leg lifted, and others are exactly beginner exercises anyway. I think some of her arguments are really made to convince people her variation is better and in some ways is misrepresenting barre workouts.

I am not invested in Lotte Berk technique though I like some of this style, I also like the fusion styles that borrow from other disciplines especially those that use a good range of motion. I would like to try a refine class or dvd if she comes out with one.
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Old 05-24-11, 01:05 PM  
Carb8985
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by alisoncooks View Post
I just read the article....

So will this change how you guys work out?
(As I look over my collection and realize that I've been reacquiring all my barre workouts...now I'm confused...)
This definitely will not change the way I work out, especially because her arguments are not supported by ANY evidence and her position is clearly biased. The only thing this article might suggest to me is that variety in exercise is important. But I already knew that. You shouldn't run/bike/lift heavy 6 days a week because it could lead to certain repetitive overuse injuries. Same applies here: you should vary your barre routine to include some larger ROM (P57, Cardio Barre) and some heavier weights (Squeeze, Squeeze Stronger, and again P57) so that your body is trained in a well-rounded way.

ETA: I should also add that I love barre workouts and they work really well for me! I actually regret my rest days from barre and look forward to each and every barre workout. No matter what I read, I would never change that.
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