Fair Use Issue for Streaming Workouts

[horsemom2]

Why not just ask Terri Walsh if it is ok?

Barb S

[suegy3]

Originally Posted by horsemom2

Why not just ask Terri Walsh if it is ok?

Barb S

I was just going to post the same thing!

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by ktlc

I'm curious then, is it ok to subscribe for the purpose of downloading 15-20 workouts, cancel the subscription and continue using the workouts? Or is this different if I download 1 or 2 because I have a slow internet connection, decide I don't want to continue the subscription, but still use these because I have them?

I don't mean to offend the OP or anyone else, as I said before I think this is an important question. We often discuss the business ethics of instructors and distribution companies, so I think it's very appropriate for us to look at our own sometimes too. Especially in areas of technology that are evolving and may not be black and white.

This is really a case in point for why I don't personally stream workouts. I was just extending the same logic to a taped workout, which most people, I'd argue, wouldn't have a problem keeping. Perhaps this is just because it's older technology, has been around for awhile, and is fairly culturally acceptable. I don't know. Which is why I don't stream workouts.

[horsemom2]

I have been doing some investigating about fair use and copyright infringement. The courts seems to be as confused as the public from what I have read. There is much more gray area than black and white.

These copyright laws were established before vhs and the internet so it is hard to apply them as well as expensive. The most important factor seems to be whether using copyrighted content without permission caused financial harm to the copyright owner.

The internet and streaming technology are obviously going to be the future source of home workouts. Past creations will just be found in thrift stores or from online owners till totally gone and forgotten.

Many of my vhs can no longer be captured without distortion because I waited too long and they have deteriorated. I have acquired sealed new vhs which were already deteriorated.

I love adding music to workouts to make them more fun for myself and being able to store them on youtube to use on my laptop and HDTV which is why I started uploading videos to youtube. At first, my uploads were private then I decided to share them. Then I started sharing the original out-of-print videos without my added music.
I have since deleted many of the video uploads which may have drawn a copyright dispute as a result of making them public. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have left my youtube video uploads private for my own use.

Barb S

[hdw]

Ethical questions are best answered by turning the table around...

If you make a workout video, let paying members stream it, would it be OK if the member make a copy and discontinue membership?

[Darkatheart]

Would you think its okay to go to work, apply your expertise and then not get paid, even a tiny little fee?

[SquishyMommy]

Originally Posted by horsemom2

I have been doing some investigating about fair use and copyright infringement. The courts seems to be as confused as the public from what I have read. There is much more gray area than black and white.

These copyright laws were established before vhs and the internet so it is hard to apply them as well as expensive. The most important factor seems to be whether using copyrighted content without permission caused financial harm to the copyright owner.

The internet and streaming technology are obviously going to be the future source of home workouts. Past creations will just be found in thrift stores or from online owners till totally gone and forgotten.

Many of my vhs can no longer be captured without distortion because I waited too long and they have deteriorated. I have acquired sealed new vhs which were already deteriorated.

I love adding music to workouts to make them more fun for myself and being able to store them on youtube to use on my laptop and HDTV which is why I started uploading videos to youtube. At first, my uploads were private then I decided to share them. Then I started sharing the original out-of-print videos without my added music.
I have since deleted many of the video uploads which may have drawn a copyright dispute as a result of making them public. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably should have left my youtube video uploads private for my own use.

Barb S

As Barb points out, copyright and fair use laws are very difficult to keep up to date in regards to technology. Personally, I think that what it mostly comes down to is the intended use of the copied product. Just like with a VHS, you are using something for personal use. I think that the majority of copyright and fair use laws are concerned with someone that is copying someone else's work and trying to sell it to make a profit. Or if the person uploads the product onto a fileshare site where other people can download, therefore depriving the original owner of potential profits.

Again, this is my opinion, but I think if you paid for the subscription then you have the right to use the workout for personal use even after your subscription is canceled. It's not that different than if you just wrote down every move used in the workout and did it as a paper workout. You are not selling the product, or giving it to anyone else, so you are not depriving the original owner of any potential income.

As for it being a moral or ethical issue, again it comes down to intended use. I don't feel bad about reading an old issue of a magazine that I no longer have a subscription to. I paid for the right to read the magazine, just as you paid for the right to view a workout.

I am by no means a legal expert, so it's very possible I could be off-base here. I just think that if you have no intention of selling or sharing the work that you shouldn't feel bad about continuing to use it.

[Sue B]

Originally Posted by Darkatheart

Would you think its okay to go to work, apply your expertise and then not get paid, even a tiny little fee?

That's known as an internship

I'm glad this subject was brought up, because there is a lot of confusion. If I subscribed to Shape for a year and decided not to renew, I can still keep the issues I received and get some use from them. The value of the subscription is in getting new, hopefully more up-to-date info.

[Mollie F.]

Originally Posted by Sue B

That's known as an internship

I'm glad this subject was brought up, because there is a lot of confusion. If I subscribed to Shape for a year and decided not to renew, I can still keep the issues I received and get some use from them. The value of the subscription is in getting new, hopefully more up-to-date info.

Copyright that pertains to print is different from media. Obviously, if I purchase a print book, I can loan it to as many people as I want. It is illegal to do that with a TV program I have taped.

I think the question here pertains primarily to the terms of the license agreement, and it might default to the strictest interpretation of the copyright law in the absence of any specific statement.

[topfitmama]

Originally Posted by knitter_mom

Anyway, my question is, would it be fair use (i.e., legal) to download the ones I have tried already onto a flash drive before I unsubscribe? They would only be for my use in my home, no YouTube, no loaning to someone else, just an occasional workout. I just can't determine whether the streaming subscription means you only have access during your subscription period, and while you can download and use them when subscribed, after you are done, you should delete them. Or am I wrong?

Kris - longtime quiet member trying to be a little more chatty

I think that if you can download them, then they are yours. Things get tricky if you have to use some program to capture streaming workouts that aren't meant to be downloaded.