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Old 01-30-13, 12:20 PM  
Irisg1
 
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Originally Posted by fagiles View Post
....and this is why many people choose to lurk.

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Old 01-30-13, 01:08 PM  
Lorelai
 
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Originally Posted by hdw View Post
Ethical questions are best answered by turning the table around...

If you make a workout video, let paying members stream it, would it be OK if the member make a copy and discontinue membership?
I'd be okay with it. Someone would have to subscribe for at least one month's subscription fee, wouldn't gain access to any workouts beyond that month, and the workouts would feel accessible to more people, who could then take said workouts to their tvs, or whatever, and not feel like they had to get laptops, tablets, etc. It's also smart for marketing, because should "I" later release dvds, those people who are working out with me in the comfort of their own homes would be likely to support me and buy the dvd. Look at Jessica Smith; I've never been so eager to support an instructor as I am now that I have access to so much content via her YouTube channel.

Jessica is unique in that she seems to care more about people's fitness than the money she makes. She loves helping people, and at their cores, I think most fitness instructors would rather not deprive people of their methods and themselves as instructors. Many people would continue to stream new workouts because they appreciate variety and have the ability to workout to streaming videos, but like i said originally, money is really tight for most people and adding more monthly expenses over extended periods of time isn't feasible for them.

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Originally Posted by SquishyMommy View Post
As Barb points out, copyright and fair use laws are very difficult to keep up to date in regards to technology. Personally, I think that what it mostly comes down to is the intended use of the copied product. Just like with a VHS, you are using something for personal use. I think that the majority of copyright and fair use laws are concerned with someone that is copying someone else's work and trying to sell it to make a profit. Or if the person uploads the product onto a fileshare site where other people can download, therefore depriving the original owner of potential profits.

Again, this is my opinion, but I think if you paid for the subscription then you have the right to use the workout for personal use even after your subscription is canceled. It's not that different than if you just wrote down every move used in the workout and did it as a paper workout. You are not selling the product, or giving it to anyone else, so you are not depriving the original owner of any potential income.

As for it being a moral or ethical issue, again it comes down to intended use. I don't feel bad about reading an old issue of a magazine that I no longer have a subscription to. I paid for the right to read the magazine, just as you paid for the right to view a workout.

I am by no means a legal expert, so it's very possible I could be off-base here. I just think that if you have no intention of selling or sharing the work that you shouldn't feel bad about continuing to use it.
+1

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Originally Posted by Sue B View Post
That's known as an internship
+1 lol

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Originally Posted by fagiles View Post
....and this is why many people choose to lurk.
+1

I nearly didn't comment on this thread at all because I was worried about backlash. I feel bad for the OP, and I hope she doesn't take some of the comments made personally. She certainly wasn't wrong for asking this question, which I'm sure many people have wondered about secretly.
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Old 01-30-13, 01:57 PM  
Debbie S.
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Originally Posted by topfitmama View Post
I guess if they are ok with you downloading, then it's ok for you to use the downloads after you've cancelled your subscription.
Now, to sign up just to download a bunch of workouts may be a bit on the cheeky side, but then most downloadable workouts have to be paid for individually, right?
I just like it when you get the option to either stream or download and keep. Then it's all clear, all on the table, and nobody is left guessing.
I should have been clearer.

Some companies, Dream Body, for example, hires a service to stream their streaming videos. With the service that Dream Body is using you can not download the video. There is no way to download the video. I believe you can not download streaming videos from Amazon and Netflix, so that's a mute point, too.

Other companies do not use the same technology that hinders one ability to download a streaming video. I have no idea if it's legal, but I normally don't see these companies making a big whoopie do over it. People pay for their service, which is usually a monthly subscription, so they are getting paid something.

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Old 01-30-13, 02:11 PM  
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Originally Posted by Lorelai View Post
Look at Jessica Smith; I've never been so eager to support an instructor as I am now that I have access to so much content via her YouTube channel.
Me too! After trying some of her youtubes I've bought 5 of her older dvds and pre-ordered the two new ones. I love Jessica Smith! And I probably wouldn't have even noticed her dvds if not for the youtube workouts.
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Old 01-30-13, 02:20 PM  
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Jessica Smith is fabulous. And I love her free videos. But I guess what people don't realize is that Jessica can post all of her stuff for free because she doesn't have EMPLOYEES to pay. Jessica has a day job where she gets her income. If she had a business to run then she would need to be compensated for the stuff she posted.
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Old 01-30-13, 02:33 PM  
Mollie F.
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Originally Posted by Darkatheart View Post
Jessica Smith is fabulous. And I love her free videos. But I guess what people don't realize is that Jessica can post all of her stuff for free because she doesn't have EMPLOYEES to pay. Jessica has a day job where she gets her income. If she had a business to run then she would need to be compensated for the stuff she posted.
And Jessica is probably balancing the benefit of free publicity and customer goodwill with what some might think she's losing giving away her videos. But, as another poster said, the freebies got her interested and she purchased some older videos. She might well make some new videos that she wants to charge for (and more power to her).

I can't read the minds of people offering subscription services for streaming videos, but I do know that when we (at the library) purchase a video for streaming in an online course, the license for streaming is completely different and has time limits, as opposed to the license we get from purchasing the DVD, which allows us to check it out until it deteriorates.

Technically, if you download a video to keep if the instructor thought she was only selling you streaming rights, you could be depriving her of revenue.
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Old 01-30-13, 03:41 PM  
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I just glanced through the thread, not interested in the slightly argumentative (lol, in my opinion) posts. I don't think it is out of line to ask the question and I don't think it is out of line to reply with a rhetorical question about would the op (or anyone, I guess) copy a Redbox DVD for their personal use. It is just a discussion.

Anyhow, I think unless it is specifically stated in the terms of the subscription that you have the right to make a copy of the product for your personal use, it is not implied that you may do so, even if it is possible to do so.

In no way is it applicable under Fair Use, that is actually a whole other principle.

If it is stated that you may make a copy then cool, make a copy.

This is one reason I don't like streaming.
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Old 01-30-13, 03:53 PM  
Mollie F.
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Originally Posted by Harantwanders View Post
and I don't think it is out of line to reply with a rhetorical question about would the op (or anyone, I guess) copy a Redbox DVD for their personal use.
Thanks for saying something that I couldn't exactly figure out how to say.
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Old 01-30-13, 04:05 PM  
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Originally Posted by SquishyMommy View Post
So basically what it boils down to is....none of us know! LOL! I'm sure it is best to err on the side of caution though and either don't do it, or get permission from Terri Walsh. Better safe than sorry!
LOL
Loved this!

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Old 01-30-13, 04:26 PM  
ktlc
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All subscriptions are not the same. I don't think you can compare a subscription to a streaming video to a magazine subscription. What a publisher transfers to you in a magazine is a print copy which by it's very nature is re-readable or re-usable. I thing a more fair comparison is a Kinetix Flix subscription. Something that you have permission to use for the period of time you are paying for the subscription.

I agree with those that say the best thing to do is ask Teri Walsh. I think this is also the smart thing to do, because if providers of streaming videos find that their videos are being downloaded against their wishes we can bet that we'll see prices go up.
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