Beachbody wants scratched dvds returned - Page 4

PhyllisG · 03-07-09, 05:23 PM

I never bought CLX from anyone. If you bought it, it was scratched and BB told you to keep it and sent you a new copy I don't see why there should be a problem with you disposing of the original copy. BB gave it to you. They told you to keep it. They didn't want it back. It is now your property. You didn't copy it. It is not pirated. I can't see any copyright infringements.

gigi · 03-07-09, 06:29 PM

Oh it's not wrong to loan out the scratched set. I plan on doing that so people can try before they buy. Not that it's the point, but I'll bet BB gets MORE business b/c of the people who are loaned scratched sets. The stratched set is mine to do with what I please...give, loan, keep...I plan on loaning and have my first loaner all lined up. I turned down an offer from someone to buy my set b/c I didn't even know how to go about figuring out a fair price and I didn't feel right profiting off of it. I'm looking at it as an opportunity to share some great workouts with people who want to try them. BB is making plenty of money and hopefully they will learn from this to NEVER let make such a huge mistake again. Good grief, they are making money off the shipping alone. I can't believe what they charge to ship one DVD! Anyhoo, didn't mean to go down that road, but the scratched copies are mine and it's nothing like pirating or copying.

lfcjasp · 03-07-09, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bee

Ok, I agree that it is a subtle thing, but the difference is that when you bought the book, you received only one copy of it. If you loan out the book and want to read it again while it's loaned out, you cannot read it, because it's not in your possession. BB should have gotten every copy of scratched sets back so this couldn't happen (and yes, of course, they should have paid the shipping!), but they didn't. But just because they didn't, it doesn't mean you can loan it out -- it is essentially not your copy to loan. Loan out your clean set maybe, but not the scratched one.

I'm sorry to be so touchy on this, but I make my livelihood on software and do not like the thought of people passing out copies of intellectual property that they have no right to.

B

Understand where you're coming from here, Bee, but what about our Exchange and the Share the Wealth threads? In the latter case, folks are giving away workouts they no longer want...and basically relieving the giftees of having to order their own copies from the instructor/company? And then there's the people who sell their old workouts on say the Yaya's site...or give them to the DAV or Salvation Army. Maybe there's a difference there. I figure once I've paid for something it's mine to do with as I please. Same if someone GAVE me something.

I also can see why Beachbody is NOT happy that people are selling their scratched copies. I'm not too thrilled with that option, but if someone gives their scratched set away, then I think that's alright...

Ayisha · 03-08-09, 12:44 AM

If I ask for a Coke and get a Pepsi and the cashier tells me to just keep it and then gives me a Coke, is that theft? If I don't want the Pepsi in question and give it to the man in back of me am I cheating the store out of sale? Was it not mine to do with as I please since the cashier told me to keep it? That's the BB debacle in a nutshell.

When BB made the decision not to require that the scratched DVDs be returned for replacements, they essentially left the decision of what to do with said DVDs in the hands of the customer. They never considered that there would be significant interest in less than pristine copies nor did they want to incur the cost of getting the scratched product back. It was a bad business call on their part.

lissalaurel76 · 03-08-09, 04:05 AM

Ayisha, GREAT post !

That's exactly it in a nutshell, like you said. I remember once I got a shipment of books, some of which were damaged. The vendor told me to just keep the books that were so damaged (badly damaged, as far as the spine was concerned... the content was ok, but if you weren't careful the pages would fall right out. These were hardbacks, big theological reference books.) because they couldn't resell them anyway, and it would have cost alot for them to have them shipped back as heavy as they were. They even told me they were mine to do with as I pleased, to give them away if I wished. They were mine to keep. I think I sold a couple, but I did give away the majority of them. (there were quite a few, my sister & I had made a big order together to save on the shipping)

So, since they told me to keep them, and they sent me replacements, they were all mine to keep, give away, loan, sell, donate, etc... Same situation here with Beachbody, except they may now be sorry that they made that decision. I don't think it's for the reasons people may think, though. With this many bad copies up for sale, trade, give aways, etc... people receiving these bad copies will think Beachbody's quality standards are piss poor (which they are) & this may result in people saying, "well, I'll never order from 'them', look at this crap !" The poor image from the spread of these bad copies may be doing damage to their already poor reputation.

lfcjasp · 03-08-09, 06:41 AM

Ayisha, you said it so much better than I did! Thanks

Kathryn · 03-08-09, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terribleterra

I totally disagree - giving original scratched dvd's to a friend for free, does not equate to selling unauthorized copies.

I agree with Bee.

I consider the replacements to be 'copies' in some way. Sure, not actual copies that one made, but "copies" that one received.

It's not like one is passing along the one unique copy one paid for.

I'm sure those who are selling or giving away their scratched copies are going to defend this as ethical behavior. Just different mind sets.

Kathryn · 03-08-09, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bee

I'm sorry to be so touchy on this, but I make my livelihood on software and do not like the thought of people passing out copies of intellectual property that they have no right to.

I again agree.

I'm in a different field, but when I found out that a colleague to whom I passed on a course syllabus so she could see how I broke down the course over the semester (so she could use that info in planning to teach the course for the first time) had not only taken my breakdown (not a problem, that's why I had passed it on to her: so we would have consistency from one section to anotehr) but had taken almost word-for-word (she changed maybe 5% of it at most) my 'teacher talk' blurbs where I talk about the different aspects of the class--my words, my voice!---I was shocked. And I let her know that it was NOT acceptable.

Immediately after that, I added a note on the "information for teachers" section of my website to anyone visiting that all materials were copyrighted by me, and permission was required before using them.

Lexy · 03-08-09, 12:49 PM

Just for the record, the set I passed on to a friend was not only scratched but some dvds didn't play or froze often. It was junk. I don't have a problem passing on junk. I even asked her if she wanted to see the parts that she could of this junk.

I understand and respect intellectual property that has commercial or artistic value. But in this age of "all about me" egos, I find a lot of what is deemed intellectual property to be the result of egos out of check.

I used to give workshops to other teachers at conferences and shared many ideas - some my own, some tweaked from other research. People would inevitably ask me if something was "my" idea and I never knew what to say. Firstly, why is that important? If I gave you something that you can take, use and make changes in your classroom does it matter if it's MY idea? It doesn't to me. My goal was to make better classrooms, not receive recognition. And I trusted those people to GIVE me recognition if my ideas worked for them.

So maybe I had a few unique ideas. But my thinking is that I didn't come up with those ideas in a vacuum. I was influenced one way or another by the world. And I'm sure that someone, somewhere in the world, during some time frame in this world, had a similar idea. I don't think I am THAT special.

Some people like to make this a simple black and white issue. I don't see much of anything in black or white. Gee, maybe I AM unique.

acescholar · 03-08-09, 12:56 PM

I can see how different people would come to different views of what is ethical with regard to the CLX saga. And, each position is arguable; none absolute.

I ended up not buying this series because it has taken so long for some people to get clean disks. I did trade for a couple.

It seems to me that those who trade their imperfect disks (the ones which BB told them to keep) do have a legitimate moral justification. I assumed that Beachbody was letting people keep the sets to compensate for what seems to have been A LOT of aggravation and hassle. In fact, my time is worth too much to spend an hour or more trying to get my order straightened out! [After all, I need that extra hour to spend on vf

]

At the same time, I can understand why BB would want to start asking for damaged sets back -- the problems were so pervasive that there are too many sets on the used market.

Those who now order will do so knowing that if there is a problem with their set, they will need to return it.

It does seem to me, though, that the people who had to spend hours of time getting their orders straight should have some compensation. If not keeping the imperfect disks, then a coupon for a discount on a future order. [Pierre, are you there??]

I am, quite frankly, astounded by some of the run around fellow vf-ers have had.

ETA: I know I'll be really attracted to CLX+, or whatever the follow up series is going to be called. I want to see the ethical issues from BB's side solved. [Pierre, are you there?]

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03-07-09, 05:23 PM
PhyllisG Join Date: May 2005 Location: Woodstock NY	I never bought CLX from anyone. If you bought it, it was scratched and BB told you to keep it and sent you a new copy I don't see why there should be a problem with you disposing of the original copy. BB gave it to you. They told you to keep it. They didn't want it back. It is now your property. You didn't copy it. It is not pirated. I can't see any copyright infringements.

03-07-09, 06:29 PM
gigi Join Date: Jun 2003	Oh it's not wrong to loan out the scratched set. I plan on doing that so people can try before they buy. Not that it's the point, but I'll bet BB gets MORE business b/c of the people who are loaned scratched sets. The stratched set is mine to do with what I please...give, loan, keep...I plan on loaning and have my first loaner all lined up. I turned down an offer from someone to buy my set b/c I didn't even know how to go about figuring out a fair price and I didn't feel right profiting off of it. I'm looking at it as an opportunity to share some great workouts with people who want to try them. BB is making plenty of money and hopefully they will learn from this to NEVER let make such a huge mistake again. Good grief, they are making money off the shipping alone. I can't believe what they charge to ship one DVD! Anyhoo, didn't mean to go down that road, but the scratched copies are mine and it's nothing like pirating or copying. __________________ Angela

03-08-09, 12:44 AM
Ayisha Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Flushing, NY	If I ask for a Coke and get a Pepsi and the cashier tells me to just keep it and then gives me a Coke, is that theft? If I don't want the Pepsi in question and give it to the man in back of me am I cheating the store out of sale? Was it not mine to do with as I please since the cashier told me to keep it? That's the BB debacle in a nutshell. When BB made the decision not to require that the scratched DVDs be returned for replacements, they essentially left the decision of what to do with said DVDs in the hands of the customer. They never considered that there would be significant interest in less than pristine copies nor did they want to incur the cost of getting the scratched product back. It was a bad business call on their part.

03-08-09, 04:05 AM
lissalaurel76 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Peoria, IL	Ayisha, GREAT post ! That's exactly it in a nutshell, like you said. I remember once I got a shipment of books, some of which were damaged. The vendor told me to just keep the books that were so damaged (badly damaged, as far as the spine was concerned... the content was ok, but if you weren't careful the pages would fall right out. These were hardbacks, big theological reference books.) because they couldn't resell them anyway, and it would have cost alot for them to have them shipped back as heavy as they were. They even told me they were mine to do with as I pleased, to give them away if I wished. They were mine to keep. I think I sold a couple, but I did give away the majority of them. (there were quite a few, my sister & I had made a big order together to save on the shipping) So, since they told me to keep them, and they sent me replacements, they were all mine to keep, give away, loan, sell, donate, etc... Same situation here with Beachbody, except they may now be sorry that they made that decision. I don't think it's for the reasons people may think, though. With this many bad copies up for sale, trade, give aways, etc... people receiving these bad copies will think Beachbody's quality standards are piss poor (which they are) & this may result in people saying, "well, I'll never order from 'them', look at this crap !" The poor image from the spread of these bad copies may be doing damage to their already poor reputation. __________________ - Melissa Who is not afraid to use the word CRAP, doesn't TAKE Crap, and encourages others to 'Embrace the Belly !'

03-08-09, 06:41 AM
lfcjasp Exchange Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hampton Roads, VA	Ayisha, you said it so much better than I did! Thanks __________________ Lydia

03-08-09, 12:49 PM
Lexy VF Supporter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Amelia Island FL	Just for the record, the set I passed on to a friend was not only scratched but some dvds didn't play or froze often. It was junk. I don't have a problem passing on junk. I even asked her if she wanted to see the parts that she could of this junk. I understand and respect intellectual property that has commercial or artistic value. But in this age of "all about me" egos, I find a lot of what is deemed intellectual property to be the result of egos out of check. I used to give workshops to other teachers at conferences and shared many ideas - some my own, some tweaked from other research. People would inevitably ask me if something was "my" idea and I never knew what to say. Firstly, why is that important? If I gave you something that you can take, use and make changes in your classroom does it matter if it's MY idea? It doesn't to me. My goal was to make better classrooms, not receive recognition. And I trusted those people to GIVE me recognition if my ideas worked for them. So maybe I had a few unique ideas. But my thinking is that I didn't come up with those ideas in a vacuum. I was influenced one way or another by the world. And I'm sure that someone, somewhere in the world, during some time frame in this world, had a similar idea. I don't think I am THAT special. Some people like to make this a simple black and white issue. I don't see much of anything in black or white. Gee, maybe I AM unique. __________________ Lexy It is better to travel well than to arrive - Buddhist proverb Train because you love your body, not because you hate your body. (Girls Gone Strong)

03-08-09, 12:56 PM
acescholar Join Date: May 2004 Location: East Bay, CA	I can see how different people would come to different views of what is ethical with regard to the CLX saga. And, each position is arguable; none absolute. I ended up not buying this series because it has taken so long for some people to get clean disks. I did trade for a couple. It seems to me that those who trade their imperfect disks (the ones which BB told them to keep) do have a legitimate moral justification. I assumed that Beachbody was letting people keep the sets to compensate for what seems to have been A LOT of aggravation and hassle. In fact, my time is worth too much to spend an hour or more trying to get my order straightened out! [After all, I need that extra hour to spend on vf ] At the same time, I can understand why BB would want to start asking for damaged sets back -- the problems were so pervasive that there are too many sets on the used market. Those who now order will do so knowing that if there is a problem with their set, they will need to return it. It does seem to me, though, that the people who had to spend hours of time getting their orders straight should have some compensation. If not keeping the imperfect disks, then a coupon for a discount on a future order. [Pierre, are you there??] I am, quite frankly, astounded by some of the run around fellow vf-ers have had. ETA: I know I'll be really attracted to CLX+, or whatever the follow up series is going to be called. I want to see the ethical issues from BB's side solved. [Pierre, are you there?]