Amazon.com Resolution: You HAVE To Take Returns

[ellaenchanted]

Originally Posted by Hilary

I'm sorry ... I don't understand this comment at all. According to the email from Amazon, the buyer DID want to return the DVDs. The seller refused to take them back. Frankly, I think if you are selling items at a third-party website, you need to abide by the rules that they've set out for selling. If you don't like their rules, don't sell there. They can't have every individual seller making their own individual rules. I both buy and sell on Amazon, and I expect both as a buyer and a seller to follow the procedures that they've set up. If I don't like those procedures, I just won't patronize their site.

But, she hasn't returned them. I am not arguing amazon's return policy here. I get that they want it to be uniform. BUT, now that buyer got her money and may decide to sell the dvds for even more money. The item should've been returned once she got her money back. Everyone should follow the rules. The buyer is indeed wrong to keep them.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by ellaenchanted

But, she hasn't returned them. I am not arguing amazon's return policy here. I get that they want it to be uniform. BUT, now that buyer got her money and may decide to sell the dvds for even more money. The item should've been returned once she got her money back. Everyone should follow the rules. The buyer is indeed wrong to keep them.

Really, they're not. When they got an email that says "I don't accept returns" against Amazon's policy and then had to go through a dispute process to get their money back, most rational individuals aren't then going to pay to ship them back to the seller.

After that, my attitude would be, "you want 'em, send a SASE to me and I'll send 'em back". If I have to fight to get a seller to do what they're supposed to do, I'm not bending over backwards for them.

[ellaenchanted]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Really, they're not. When they got an email that says "I don't accept returns" against Amazon's policy and then had to go through a dispute process to get their money back, most rational individuals aren't then going to pay to ship them back to the seller.

After that, my attitude would be, "you want 'em, send a SASE to me and I'll send 'em back". If I have to fight to get a seller to do what they're supposed to do, I'm not bending over backwards for them.

That wasn't the point. I never said the buyer should pay return shipping. She should return the dvds. Whatever Amazon's return shipping policy is should be followed. They are definitely wrong about not returning, it's akin to stealing.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by ellaenchanted

That wasn't the point. I never said the buyer should pay return shipping. She should return the dvds. Whatever Amazon's return shipping policy is should be followed. They are definitely wrong about not returning, it's akin to stealing.

How are they supposed to return them without paying for the shipping? I don't know Amazon's return policy on merchandise that isn't as described (or even is), but if the buyer isn't responsible, then how do they get the merchandise back to the seller? Carrier pigeon?

In my view, once F1 violated the rules (knowingly or unknowingly, it doesn't really matter), the deal is off. I'm not obligated to do anything once the other party has decided to go off the reservation. Hence the reason I ended up with both my money and a set of counterfeit DVDs the last time an Amazon seller decided not to follow the rules.

[noraW]

At this point Amazon has taken the loss, haven't they? Then why should anything be returned? Maybe I read it wrong but they didn't debit Raina's account and the buyer received the refund. Now it's really Amazon's decision whether they want the DVD's. This is what I gathered but maybe I misunderstood the final outcome. If what I gathered is correct, Amazon is trying to keep a customer happy.

[F1mom]

The buyer in this case was told in my first response I take returns for damaged items. The response quoted by automaton was the third response. And this case she darn near finished a 30 day rotation then decided she didn't like the program. I had a problem with that. When she filed the claim I was set to respond then POOF! The claim was magically closed by amazon.So what was I to do then? In this case I had to leave town for a family emergency and while I was gone Amazon reopened a closed claim. I don't believe for one minute that any VFer would pull a stunt like this buyer.


I'm sorry but neither amazon nor the buyer are absolved because I didn't give a full refund plus pay $10 for return shipping from the get go. Too bad I can't copy every single email exhanged with the buyer here because It paints a different picture, especially since the buyer claimed the item wasn't as decscribed when in fact it was.

The real winner here is Amazon. If I ever sell anything again and a shady buyer wants a refund no matter how unreasonable I'll refund the money right away.

[ellaenchanted]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

How are they supposed to return them without paying for the shipping? I don't know Amazon's return policy on merchandise that isn't as described (or even is), but if the buyer isn't responsible, then how do they get the merchandise back to the seller? Carrier pigeon?

In my view, once F1 violated the rules (knowingly or unknowingly, it doesn't really matter), the deal is off. I'm not obligated to do anything once the other party has decided to go off the reservation. Hence the reason I ended up with both my money and a set of counterfeit DVDs the last time an Amazon seller decided not to follow the rules.

They return via whatever Amazon says. If the return postage is paid by the seller, then that's how it should go. If you are the buyer, you find that out. The deal is not off over one mistake. The seller did not go off the reservation. She complained here just to vent...she went through amazon to resolve her issues. She wasn't harassing the buyer. Her sister died and she may have been very emotional but people could disagree with her without the handslapping.

Yes, Amazon took the hit. This isn't a good thing. When companies take hits, they have change their policies to be more strict and prices increase.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by F1mom

The buyer in this case was with the first response I take returns for damaged items. In this case she darn near finished a 30 day rotation then decided she didn't like the program. I had a problem with that. When she filed the claim I was set to respond then POOF! The claim was magically closed by amazon.So what was I to do then? In this case I had to leave town for a family emergency and while I was gone Amazon reopened a closed claim.

I'm sorry but neither amazon nor the buyer are absolved because I didn't give a full refund plus pay $10 for return shipping from the get go. Too bad I can't copy every single email exhanged with the buyer here because It paints a different picture, especially since the buyer claimed the item wasn't as decscribes when in fact it was.

With all due respect, you made two mistakes:

1. Regardless of reason, you are obligated to take returns for 30 days. Whether or not you knew that or put your own disclaimer on your listing isn't relevant. It really doesn't matter if the buyer says you misrepresented the item and you didn't since you have to take a return for any reason. It's irrelevant whether or not the buyer did most of the program and then decided to return it. That's not against the rules established by Amazon. If you sell on Amazon's Marketplace, those are the rules and as a seller it's your job to know and abide by them. When you refused the return, you broke the rules and that's all on you.

2. You didn't respond to the claim. I'm sorry for the loss of your sister, but neither Amazon nor the buyer had any way of knowing that and in the grand scheme of things that's also not their problem. All they know is that you didn't respond in the (fairly ample) time allowed. Hence, the charge-back.

I want to be perfectly clear. I'm not saying you did anything devious or dishonest here. Everything you did is perfectly understandable. This is one of those "**** happens" scenarios where generally someone gets the short end of the stick.

But...

What I am saying is that this situation was caused by your own doing and Amazon is being rather generous here. They credited your account based on a technicality that resulted from your not knowing or abiding by the rules of the site. So thumbs up for Amazon's customer service and I'm glad it worked out for you. I'm sure you'll sell via Ebay next time since you don't like the rules Amazon has in place and that's ok. Personally, I also don't like Amazon's rules and wouldn't sell via their marketplace, though I just generally prefer to trade here.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by ellaenchanted

They return via whatever Amazon says. If the return postage is paid by the seller, then that's how it should go. If you are the buyer, you find that out. The deal is not off over one mistake. The seller did not go off the reservation. She complained here just to vent...she went through amazon to resolve her issues. She wasn't harassing the buyer. Her sister died and she may have been very emotional but people could disagree with her without the handslapping.

Yes, Amazon took the hit. This isn't a good thing. When companies take hits, they have change their policies to be more strict and prices increase.

Just a couple of facts on Amazon's return policy:

1. The buyer is responsible for paying the freight back to the seller. So I suppose they could have sent the stuff back after getting the refund, though I probably wouldn't have either after fighting to get a refund if a seller decided refuse a return in violation of Amazon's policies.

2. One part of their policy doesn't jive with the story from F1. She says that the buyer did most of the 30 day program and then decided to return it. According to Amazon's policy, the buyer only has 14 days after the receipt of goods to contact the seller to return merchandise - the 30 days is to return the merchandise. How could they do most of the program and still contact F1 inside of the 14 days? Did Amazon violate their own policy by allowing the buyer to instigate a refund outside of the 14 days?

3. In this case, "Off the reservation" meant not following the rules. I should have been more specific since that phrase can mean a number of things (including going crazy, which was NOT what I was trying to convey).

[F1mom]

Yes, and that's a warning for all VFers selling anything on Amazon.com. Someone can and just might do a rotation then decide to return your now used item and you have no choice but to take it back. Since I didn't actually get the set back who knows what shape it's in now.