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[hch]

Originally Posted by rhbrand

I'm not saying there is anything about "why are you posting that here"

Oh, I didn't have the idea that you were saying so; I just thought of it as a habit that we, in fact, don't see on VF (and I don't miss it ).

What I'm saying is when either I or someone else posts about heavy weight lifting via book programs, it gets very little replies. After a while, you quit posting cause no one replies and you find new message boards/Facebook groups that have the same interests that you do.

Maybe this thought says more about my thinking than about what's actually happening, but I've always thought that the lack of response is more about the subject of heavy weights than about "paper workouts" as a format.

My vague impression, at least, is that there's more discussion of book workouts for other subjects, though comparable threads on videos still tend to be longer. There are also very short threads on video workouts. (Maybe this comparison isn't direct, but VF has started to have wholly or near-wholly off-topic threads about media entertainment, in whatever format--threads that tend to attract a lot of posts.)

[Pat58]

Why are nutrition programs and diets such taboo subjects, anyway?

[eam531]

Originally Posted by Pat58

Why are nutrition programs and diets such taboo subjects, anyway?

My guess is the that mods would constantly be putting out flame wars. Nutrition and dietary program can have extremely partisan adherents who think that because they are True Believers (TM), everyone should be. The moderators have better things to do than referee dietary discussions.

I for one am overjoyed that dietary discussions are verboten on this board, and I'm speaking as one who follows a specific dietary program. I can talk about it elsewhere. I come here for info about fitness (exercise) programs on video (DVDs, streaming, etc.) or paper.

[cataddict]

Originally Posted by eam531

My guess is the that mods would constantly be putting out flame wars. Nutrition and dietary program can have extremely partisan adherents who think that because they are True Believers (TM), everyone should be. The moderators have better things to do than referee dietary discussions.

I for one am overjoyed that dietary discussions are verboten on this board, and I'm speaking as one who follows a specific dietary program. I can talk about it elsewhere. I come here for info about fitness (exercise) programs on video (DVDs, streaming, etc.) or paper.

ITA. Yes, I know that diet and nutrition is of utmost importance to overall fitness, but discussing the specifics can definitely get touchy.

[hch]

Originally Posted by Pat58

Why are nutrition programs and diets such taboo subjects, anyway?

Originally Posted by eam531

My guess is the that mods would constantly be putting out flame wars. Nutrition and dietary program can have extremely partisan adherents who think that because they are True Believers (TM), everyone should be. The moderators have better things to do than referee dietary discussions.

This was my first guess years ago, and I agree with what you wrote. It also appears in the overall guidelines:

We also do not want to see "flame wars" erupt over differences in opinion about what constitutes a healthy diet. Many threads in VF history that have turned truly ugly have been in some way related to diet or eating habits.

I've never seen those threads (I learned about VF during the transition to a standalone site, and I never saw any of the old forum), but I can believe what she said.

Around the time that I joined VF, I was lurking on some instructor forums. As I recently e-mailed someone: "One instructor forum, now defunct, had a diet section with a running battle between two mutually exclusive camps. It was hostile, and I was shocked at how that exchange was allowed to continue with that tone. The public battle stopped only when the forum was closed, and if I learned that the two sides continued to trade e-mails afterwards, I wouldn't be surprised."

VF has had hostile threads over other differences, and I don't see how diets would differ in this way. The main difference that I imagine is the likely frequency and intensity of the discord over how people eat, which would probably exceed how much we've seen about differences over how people exercise. When we have had occasional people with what I'll call very strong views on Right Exercise and Wrong Exercise, they tend not to attract very many "allies" (or stay very long anyway); I'd expect a diet-filled VF to have more people fighting for longer periods, at least until the threads were locked and the worst offenders banned.

For ease of reading and quoting, there's more in my next post. Avoiding these conflicts isn't the only reason for VF policy.

[Sue B]

Originally Posted by Pat58

Why are nutrition programs and diets such taboo subjects, anyway?

The diet-free zone page is a good explanation. I especially like this part: "I believe that taking diet discussion out of the picture has enhanced the supportive nature of our community. Discussions of diet, though they may not start out this way, tend focus on diet and exercise for weight loss, rather than diet and exercise for health and self esteem. Though weight loss certainly comes up in discussions here, losing weight is not the primary focus of conversation. Our community members see fitness as a lifelong journey rather than just a means to improve appearance."

I remember how vicious people used to get about their diets in the aerobics newsgroup that VF was born from. Once I asked about cooking potatoes, and some people acted like potatoes were the most toxic thing you could put in your body.

[hch]

Yes, I like the discussion on the specific page about the "diet-free zone":

Diet is, of course, a fundamental part of a healthy lifestyle, but every health and fitness or women's site seems to focus on diet.

I quote this sentence if anyone thinks that VF policy was supposed to ignore or dismiss nutrition entirely. I think of politics as a rough parallel: obviously we'll have elections, public policy, and the like, and these things are certainly important, but there are good reasons that discussions about them are problematic and that VF policy discourages having those discussions here.

Besides, even if our discussions were perfectly peaceable, there exist other problematic ways of talking about eating and food, such as the complicated moralizing of food. The VF policy at least prevents VF from spreading them.

It should be possible to discuss diet and nutrition in a way that isn't problematic, but doing so would require more care and guidance than our society generally provides.

Recently I've also been reading about "fat talk," which (despite the wording) isn't only about fat; it's about generally finding perceived flaws in our bodies. Discussing these alleged flaws has tricky social results. VF already has had plenty of such talk, and neither the video world nor the larger exercise world has been as body-positive as I'd like--but a forum with lots of talk about diet and weight would probably have more "fat talk" too.

Here I'm thinking again of other forums where I once lurked, some of which had posts resembling VF check-ins. The forums that most emphasized weight (with frequent reports of frequent weighing) was full of posters demonstrating what others have called letting the scale dictate one's mood for the day. The overall mood looked generally dissatisfied, even sometimes despairing.

VF differed from the rest. I realized several years ago that if VF were just like other forums in this respect, I might never have joined. I support its policies.

Originally Posted by eam531

I for one am overjoyed that dietary discussions are verboten on this board, and I'm speaking as one who follows a specific dietary program. I can talk about it elsewhere. I come here for info about fitness (exercise) programs on video (DVDs, streaming, etc.) or paper.

I share your joy!

[wendug]

After years of coming to this site and getting great fitness advice, I finally became a VF supporter. I have no idea why it took me so long!

[ncl]

Thanks for the reminder to support. I just did. And apparently I have been here for 15 years! I agree, definitely well worth 20 dollars. You Vfers are fabulous.

[Juliepie]

Done!