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Old 08-19-10, 03:28 PM  
cmiyachi
 
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Samantha - thanks so much for your thoughts on the different styles. I am planning on getting certified as a teacher for kettlebells sometime in the future and was looking at both certifications. You are really making me lean toward Cotter's organization.
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Old 08-19-10, 03:35 PM  
tigerbaby
 
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Originally Posted by bee1forfitness View Post
Check out this clip of "competition style of the swings and also notice the way Steve breaths, it's the opposite of the "hard" style RKC

I want to thank Samantha..awhile back she gave us a clip on Steve showing how to do the snatch without banging up your wrist/arms...since then I've started to learn more about Steve and IKFF and have started to incorporate some elements of "soft" style into my Kettlebell training, and I think Scott Sonnon's kettlebell lifting and joint mobility is beyond awesome.
I absolutely adore Scott Sonnon and think he's genius. I have his kettlebell foundation dvd's and he spends roughly 10 minutes just teaching you the rack position alone! Steve, well, he's not of this earth. I think the man is part bionic!
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Old 08-19-10, 04:16 PM  
editstein
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nyblack1 : it is all about how yu lift the kb safely and effectively, the smoother and more precise that your technique becomes the better your results will be in fitness AND in competition Infact the most experienced competitor lifters have very low incidence of injuries because their technique is so well executed and so well controlled. So the answer is yes, to learn the fluid way of lifting kbs is going to be safer more effective and offer greater longevity since it does not beat the body up IF you progress with an intelligent plan and don't go too heavy too soon and do too much too soon

yes tigerbaby, soft style is a misnomer because many assumes easier or diluited while I would say it is the opposite

Mindy, no I don't teach classes, I am travelling all the time and will continue till the end of the year but thanks for asking Which are are you from ? I am sure there is somebody good close to you !

Chris, Cotter himself is incorporating a lot of yoga oriented stretches in his teaching, you will like it and even if he was twice US full contact champion, he was a xing yi and qi gong practitioner and these martial arts are really art form.

Calistro ... it is coming and he will have many more soon, he is updating a lot of material because of all the new techniques he has been learning in these latest periods. He has no attachment for any of his teaching if he finds out better ones. I will be with IKFF in London in october by the way, maybe see you then !

For clarification the term "hard style" was borrowed by Pavel from the martial arts. In martial arts terminology hard style system have the characteristics of a high degree of tension and a lot of body hardening exercises such as banging the forearms and shins against hard objects to toughen them for combat .
An example of hard style karate is the japanese art of shotokan.
Soft style in martial arts are associated with fluid movements health practices and longevity. The most common soft style is tai chi.
Generally speaking you will not see hard style practitioners live to a healthy old age because they punish their bodies so much during the youth. On the other hand soft style practitioners are renowed for mantaining health vitality and flexibility into their older years. That said in kettlebell lifting at least in Russia there are no style per se. There is quality of technique, better or worse techniques. So the whole use of "hard" style is simply a brand name and marketing tactic that RKC developed to take the comparison away from high level kettlebell lifting and to frame their system as somehow more appropriate for fitness even though skill is skill and can be measured by performance no matter what name you call it. The only question that should matter is what you can do and those who are confident in their expertise will step up on the platform and test their skills for all to see instead of only saying that their method is the "best".
So actually there are no styles, there is good and bad kb lifting.
There are good RKC lifter and bad RKC lifters, there are good RKC kb coaches and bad RKC coaches but it is uneducated to suggest that RKC is all there is available . For example Mc Donalds is the most famous hamburger in the world but can anyone honestly say is the best hamburger ? Maybe if Mc Donald is the only hamburger you have ever tasted you might think so

Scott Sonnon is a gifted teacher and what he knows about kbs he learnt from Valery Federenko who is really a truly amazing kb lifter and former world champion. If any of you has the Encyclopedia of KB lifting, you can see Valery as a guest lifter in the section of girivoy sport.
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Old 08-19-10, 04:27 PM  
editstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bee1forfitness View Post
Check out this clip of "competition style of the swings and also notice the way Steve breaths, it's the opposite of the "hard" style RKC

I want to thank Samantha..awhile back she gave us a clip on Steve showing how to do the snatch without banging up your wrist/arms...since then I've started to learn more about Steve and IKFF and have started to incorporate some elements of "soft" style into my Kettlebell training, and I think Scott Sonnon's kettlebell lifting and joint mobility is beyond awesome.
Bee, reallyglad the clip helped you
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Old 08-19-10, 04:29 PM  
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Samantha,

Thank you for your explanation. I admit I got sucked in by the idea that the RKC was the only kettlebell organization worthwhile. I am off to do some googling.

Bee1forfitness,

Thank you for the clips.

Tina.

Last edited by wnt2bfirm; 08-19-10 at 04:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-19-10, 04:51 PM  
counterclockwise
 
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Originally Posted by editstein View Post
Generally speaking you will not see hard style practitioners live to a healthy old age because they punish their bodies so much during the youth. On the other hand soft style practitioners are renowed for mantaining health vitality and flexibility into their older years.
Are you speaking here about hard style KB practitioners, or hard style martial arts practitioners, or both? I am guessing martial artists since you are saying there isn't really a hard style in Russia either now or historically and RKC is rather new? Just curious...I am just getting into KB's, and have Lauren's, Amy's, and Sara Cheatham's DVDs, and have gone to 2 classes taught by an HKC and RKC so far, and haven't felt the exercises are hard on my body (except for a few bruises from learning the clean, guessing that can happen w/any style). They also seem to be teaching to do the moves in a smooth fashion, so I am just trying to get my head around why it's more dangerous. But I am very new to this and have no idea what the RKC puts their students through, or what their mentality really is.

Sorry if I have misunderstood - just trying to understand.
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Old 08-19-10, 05:14 PM  
editstein
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Originally Posted by nyxblack1 View Post
Are you speaking here about hard style KB practitioners, or hard style martial arts practitioners, or both? I am guessing martial artists since you are saying there isn't really a hard style in Russia either now or historically and RKC is rather new? Just curious...I am just getting into KB's, and have Lauren's, Amy's, and Sara Cheatham's DVDs, and have gone to 2 classes taught by an HKC and RKC so far, and haven't felt the exercises are hard on my body (except for a few bruises from learning the clean, guessing that can happen w/any style). They also seem to be teaching to do the moves in a smooth fashion. But I am very new to this and have no idea what the RKC puts their students through, or what their mentality really is.

Sorry if I have misunderstood - just trying to understand.
Actually RKC is not really a """new""" style. It is simply a brand name and it is performed the way people lifted kbs LONG ago before the science and sport had evolved to the level it is now. It is the very basic entry level, with a short learnng curve but what the average consumer in the west is not yet aware of is that the sport science of KB lifting has evolved tremendously so RKC is not what you would call the cutting edge or most refined.

Basically Pavel modeled his system of kbs after hard style martial arts. It is name HE selected to describe the """style""" HE adopted. So he wanted his method to reflect the qualities of hard style karate. Not every hard style martial artist is injuried just like not every """hard style""" kb lifter is injuried however the very characteristics of RKC look to hard style martial arts as the example as defined by the founder himself. As I said, it is a brand name and there are no style. So I am referring to martial artists kb lifters and any other proponent of high tension methods.

Smooth is relative to your experience level,.
Probably if these instructors you mention had training from more experenced coaches, their technique would be even more smooth.

That said I respect those you mentioned and I am not criticizing any individual.

My main point is there is a big world out there and there is a lot more to KBs that what one can find with RKC and people should take an honest interest in educating themselves

If you like RKC it is great, if you will continue to lift kbs for some years you might decide to look for something more
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Old 08-19-10, 05:24 PM  
counterclockwise
 
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Thanks Samantha - off to learn more about the differences!
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Old 08-19-10, 05:30 PM  
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Thanks for your comments, Samantha - I find it fascinating!
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Old 08-20-10, 06:30 PM  
AmyLynn
 
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If anyone buys, I'd be interested in a review. I had emailed Lisa to ask whether additional clips would be put up and she said no, so I'm hoping that someone steps up to be the proverbial guinea pig!
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