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Old 01-12-09, 12:53 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWWendy
If someone wants to comment on a workout or instructor based on a preview, YouTube video clip, Web site preview or whatever, they definitely have a right to do so, though it is helpful if they qualify their comments by saying the comments were based on a preview or a particular clip or an article or blog entry an instructor wrote.

In our review-writing tips, for example, we suggest if someone is writing a review based on a preview only they should state that fact, because it is useful information for the reader and helps them put the information in context along side other reviews. The more information consumers can get in order to make their purchasing decisions, the better, and previews are sometimes all people have to go on in cases where a workout or series has not yet been released (Cathe's STS clips, for example).

On the other hand, it is also true that many workouts do not feel the same when you do them as they look when you watch them, and those who have done a workout vs. previewing it also have a right to point out differences in previewing vs. doing the whole thing if they feel a preview is not representative of the workout in its entirety. If, for example, a preview clip showed uneven reps on each side, but the workout is 60 min. long and that clip shows the one instance of uneven reps in the whole workout (or perhaps the reps weren't uneven after all because the clip is just not long enough), that is helpful for people to know.

I hope that helps to clarify.
Thank you Wendy. I completely agree with absolutely everything you have said.

The critical difference, I believe is in making a comment and posting a review. Much more must be expected of the latter.

I have never written an official VF review and have only recently posted my first detailed reviews, most notably of the David Kirsch 7 Day Prescription set based on previews. As you mentioned, I was 100% clear that they were technical reviews based on preview. (I did do each movement myself to make sure I liked the feel of each exercise, but that is not doing the workout, so I do not even mention that I do this.) Ironically, the only DVD from the set I have done is Power Body, which I have not yet officially reviewed in detail! LOL

I do forget the name of the website now, as it now requires paid membership if, in fact, it still exists, but a woman used to review hundreds of workout DVDs, usually by preview alone. It was very popular with VFers several years ago. She, like myself, had a background in exercise science such that she could comment on form, sequencing, etc. without having to actually do the workout. She did do some of them, but most were done by preview due to the sheer number she churned out in great detail.

I would never make a comment about a workout that required performing the workout. For example, if I post that a certain workout; causes me to "lean out", is too hard for me to follow, is tough for me to complete the reps, gives me great hypertrophy results, is fun, etc., I have certainly done the workout.

In reference to Tracy Anderson in particular, the first judgement based comments I have ever made on her actual workout style were in reference to watching and completing her bonus glute workout, posted in this thread. Of course, I was sure to mention that I had watched the clip once through first and then watched it again following along and pausing in order to complete the suggested repetitions.

All of my other negative comments have been about her ethics and false anatomy/physiology/exercise science claims. Since all of those things are certainly relevant to both her knowledge (which instructors pass along in their workouts either by speaking or by what they demonstrate) and her obtaining my business, I will continue to post as I choose on that topic.

If someone asks a general question about a TA DVD for which I know the answer 100% from reading 1000 posts here and longer reviews/interviews on other websites, I can certainly answer the question as long as it is not judgement based. I can say, for example that a particular workout has 8 minutes of unweighted arm movements, is 38 minutes long, has classical music, etc. as those are not related to doing the DVD. In those rare cases, I do also mention that I do not have the DVDs.

Thank you again Wendy for clarifying that all VFers are welcome to particpate appropriately based on reviews, blogs, clips, YouTube, website entires, etc.

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 02:48 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGirl
I should probably comment on this as I *think* this is in response to my post asking if you had actually done the workouts.
Not at all JeepGirl! Please do not think that you sparked by comments. They were in relation to a long term trend in numerous threads. Trust me that people feel angry and/or rejected.

As to the rest of your post:

In regards to my comparison of TA’s DVDs, my first sentence states that I do not own the DVDs.

I thought it helpful to Patty to present the factual information about the workouts (from numerous sources) and to make comments on the general consensus of other's feelings (as I was careful to do if you read my post).

I find it quite amusing that another VFer who I know for a fact does not own a single TA DVD (because she told me herself!) makes statements and comments in every TA thread and is thanked for them profusely! :rolleyes: I must wonder why you do not also ask her if she has done the DVDs every time she posts? At least I am clear that I do not own them. She is not.

You may not agree, but IMO having a related science degree and a certified exercise/sports nutrition background does allow me to look at a workout and make certain judgments without actually completing the movements. Although you are correct that individuals vary and what is "most effective" is subjective (since it really depends on what you want a workout to achieve) there are general accepted facts that I can comment on.

The only thing that I totally disagree with you on is putting much credence in the results others obtain with a certain workout or rotation.

I find posted "results" the most subjective of all things. Posted results are highly influenced by individual perception (unless you are looking at untouched before and after photos). Even if you could trust a person’s “my butt lifted” (people even post result perceptions which are anatomically impossible) to be factual, it cannot be used to judge what would happen if the same workout was combined with your own genetics (body fat distribution, length of muscle bellies, muscle fiber distribution, nerve pathway efficiency, etc.) and physical status (fitness level, hormonal status, nutritional profile, sleep status, etc.).

I put much more value in the actual workout’s merits in achieving a goal scientifically combined with my own genetic potential than by listening to random results that usually have no way of even being traced back to a specific workout.

I do love to read all VFers opinions of workouts/instructors since they are both interesting and informative.

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 04:25 AM  
lissalaurel76
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanishcurls
Thank you fuzzie and ali for your responses. My arms are toned but I'd like more definition. I also seem to have arm pit fat that I cannot get rid of There is a lot of muscle under that fat though
Hmm... So, what does armpit muscle look like ? Will it get bulky with too much lifting ? Will I need to use more deodorant than before to get enough coverage ? ...... tee hee
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Old 01-12-09, 07:21 AM  
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TAZ95, thank you for converting that file. i can view it now in Windows media player. YAY!! Thank you again!

Angee
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Old 01-12-09, 07:39 AM  
spanishcurls
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lissalaurel76
Hmm... So, what does armpit muscle look like ? Will it get bulky with too much lifting ? Will I need to use more deodorant than before to get enough coverage ? ...... tee hee

Are you making fun of me? It's very strange. I supposedly have low body fat but yet I still have this- I don't know what to call it- a "cushion" under my arm pits. I think it's the lat muscle. I have always been conscious of it. I try not to worry about it too much but once in a while I do get bothered by it. At the gym recently, a trainer measured my body fat. Based on the clippers, it came to something like 11% and then she used this other thing that I had to hold and it came to something like 17% so she said my body fat was probably in the middle, like 13-15%. I'm just writing that to say that I am somewhat toned except for that part!
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Old 01-12-09, 09:29 AM  
lucia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spanishcurls
Are you making fun of me? It's very strange. I supposedly have low body fat but yet I still have this- I don't know what to call it- a "cushion" under my arm pits. I think it's the lat muscle. I have always been conscious of it. I try not to worry about it too much but once in a while I do get bothered by it. At the gym recently, a trainer measured my body fat. Based on the clippers, it came to something like 11% and then she used this other thing that I had to hold and it came to something like 17% so she said my body fat was probably in the middle, like 13-15%. I'm just writing that to say that I am somewhat toned except for that part!
You are not alone!...I have low body fat but my upper arms and "bra roll" are quite cushiony. My sis is the same way. My new idea is to finish CLX to lose weight (I have recently gained but my upper body did look the same before the weight gain; still cushiony but just not as much mass ) and then try the TA to shrink my arms! When I did P90X, I started getting lots of strength & muscle build-up but, in my arms, it looked more like blobs than "defined" so I was frustrated. Still looked cushiony to an extent, too. I am someone who needs to shrink my arms!
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Old 01-12-09, 09:53 AM  
Sue B
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Maryland
Quote:
Originally Posted by spanishcurls
Are you making fun of me? It's very strange. I supposedly have low body fat but yet I still have this- I don't know what to call it- a "cushion" under my arm pits. I think it's the lat muscle. I have always been conscious of it. I try not to worry about it too much but once in a while I do get bothered by it. At the gym recently, a trainer measured my body fat. Based on the clippers, it came to something like 11% and then she used this other thing that I had to hold and it came to something like 17% so she said my body fat was probably in the middle, like 13-15%. I'm just writing that to say that I am somewhat toned except for that part!
Wow, with that percentage you should be entering figure contests!
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Old 01-12-09, 10:42 AM  
spanishcurls
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue B
Wow, with that percentage you should be entering figure contests!

Ha! I took all those measurements with a grain of salt. I've read it really depends on the person taking the measurements. Genetically, I tend to build a lot of muscle so I do feel that I am toned but I can definitely be more defined. My husband, though, begs to differ. I mentioned to him last night about my "bra fat" when we were watching the Golden Globes and in one shot, you can see Jennifer Lopez had the same thing. He said I do not have that! I do have a six pack, even after having 2 children :
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Old 01-12-09, 11:07 AM  
Debbie M
 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue B
Wow, with that percentage you should be entering figure contests!
That is exactly what I thought!!!!!

Two different readings cannot be that wrong!!!!!

You you girl.

I think we all have those "areas" though. Is anyone immune? I can maintain 17%-18% BF without too much effort (medication weight gain withstanding ), but 15% is "vacation" bodyfat for me! But even then, for me, it is that blob at the top of the inner thighs.

Since there is no answer but liposuction, you have to live with it if your bodyfat is already that low.

Deb
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Old 01-12-09, 12:26 PM  
Vintage VFer
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I watched the download and then trashed it. Tracy is annoying and the Gwyneth arse-kissing is over the top. Just watching those moves makes my back hurt!


I hope she give some form pointers in her other workouts.
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