OT Anyone Watch 13 Reasons Why?

[ebianco]

Originally Posted by GinaXOXO

I only watched it--didn't read it. I have mixed feelings about it. Part of me feels that it showed us how simply supporting a friend would help them through hard times. But, it also glamorized "revenge" suicide.

This is a good way of phrasing what I thought of the book. While the premise was interesting, I didn't really like the book so I'm certainly not going to watch the Netflix adaptation.

I'm not in a position that I can really pass judgement on suicide nor rape (thank goodness) but I do feel like the main character could have put her efforts to finding help (and receiving justice if possible for the rape) instead of an elaborate revenge scheme. But again I can't presume how anyone would respond in a particular situation, especially a teenager. Unfortunately social standing seems like a life or death situation for some teenagers.

[LynnO]

Hmm I absolutely hated the book and did not watch the show. In the discussions surrounding this, I did see statistics that contradicted some of the discussions I've seen here at VF- I'll let everyone do their own research, but look at several different places because every source has at least a small bias- on what percent of attempters have mental illness.

I like this youtuber who works with a lot of young people and here is her thoughts on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfzx86mp83Q

I don't 100% agree with everything she says, but the whole revenge, blaming other people made me sick. If you read the book, people did reach out to her and she ignored it. It made me mad that she was presented as "normal" and that killing yourself is nice revenge, but, make sure they all know it. The book/series does a disservice to every parent, therapist, friend, bystander and loved one of someone who has attempted or completed suicide. Most of these people did everything they could. Our society sure could use a little more kindness, but just ugh.

[LynnO]

Originally Posted by toaster

Again, I haven't watched the show. I have heard that the counselor did not respond professionally; in fact, I have heard that NONE of the adults respond appropriately in this show. But I feel the need to clearly state something here: NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE! Rape is a horrible thing, but to say that the rapist is "responsible" for the suicide is a disservice to all the women who survive rape. Help IS available.

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255
National Crisis Text Line 741 741, text start or go

Soapbox over.

I really don't understand how that is a disservice to rape survivors.

I sort of get what you are saying and every time someone says they think rape or child molestation is worse than killing someone it makes me want to scream. We are all worth so much more- our value is not diminished by someone taking away our will and physically assaulting us. Such a terrible terrible message. Every single person is valuable enough that they are worthy of a full recovery. We'd never diminish someone who's arm was broken during a robbery. Why devalue someone who was injured (or not) during a rape?

[Pie]

Originally Posted by hotncmom

My son is 16 and we watched it separately (I didn't know he was watching it until he noticed I was watching it), and discussed.

SPOILER ALERT!!!!






Of all the people she blamed for her suicide, the only ones responsible were the rapist and her school counselor IMO.

She was traumatized by watching her friend's rape and then she was raped herself. She sought help from the school counselor, who failed her completely. He should have AT LEAST, called her parents so they could get her into therapy.

That other stuff - friendships come and go. She was still relatively socially connected. Yes, some of the other kids should have stood up for her when the rumors started, but I don't think that alone was the tipping point. Boys sexualize girls and try to get in their pants whether they have a "reputation" or not. I'm not saying that it's right, but ultimately it was her friend's rape (and her failure to stop it), her own rape, and the nonchalance of an authority figure who was supposed to help her that drove her to suicide.

My teenage daughter and I watched it separately. I completely agree with your post. Even my 17 y/o agrees. We had a long discussion about this show. It opened up a dialogue that we hadn't had before.

[LovingLife]

Originally Posted by hotncmom

. . . I'm not saying that it's right, but ultimately it was her friend's rape (and her failure to stop it), her own rape, and the nonchalance of an authority figure who was supposed to help her that drove her to suicide.

I haven't seen the show (and don't plan on it), but in the book, the main girl was not raped -- her friend was while passed out at a party and she was hiding in a closet, aware of what was happening (not saying that's any better, just saying how it may have been different from the movie). Also, the counselor wasn't nonchalant, but there wasn't any notification to the parents. The counselor scene was odd to me. The girl was almost challenging the counselor in her mind to ask the right questions and to call her back when walked away at the end of the session and through her thoughts acted like if the counselor had, she would have changed her mind.

From what I've heard about the movie or show, it's much more graphic and many of my daughter's 17 year old friends said it was too much for them and seemed to be glorifying suicide, saying that you can get attention and seek revenge by doing so.

[met fan]

I'm a nurse who works in mental health. I work on an adult, short term inpatient unit. We do not take children. We send children that need admissions to other facilities. We usually see 1 or 2 children a week. The last month we have seen a huge increase in children needing placement. Last week, we had 7 adolescents awaiting placement in the ED. Many are there for days because the facilities that take kids are full. This has been unheard of in the past. Many speculate that the movie glamorizes suicide. I have not seen the show.

[LovingLife]

Originally Posted by met fan

I'm a nurse who works in mental health. I work on an adult, short term inpatient unit. We do not take children. We send children that need admissions to other facilities. We usually see 1 or 2 children a week. The last month we have seen a huge increase in children needing placement. Last week, we had 7 adolescents awaiting placement in the ED. Many are there for days because the facilities that take kids are full. This has been unheard of in the past. Many speculate that the movie glamorizes suicide. I have not seen the show.

That's really interesting (and really sad). I'm glad you have facilities to help the kids through this right now. My take on the book is that even though some might say it's not being glamorized, to a kid, it could be seen as a way to get noticed, an avenue to explore (especially since this main character used the tapes as a way to have her voice heard and a way to get back at those she either thought wronged her or she just wanted to have understand her better).

A woman on a FB moms group in my area recently wrote this blog post with a book she thinks is a much better book for kids on this subject https://proudlybipolar.wordpress.com...3-reasons-why/

[hotncmom]

Originally Posted by LovingLife

I haven't seen the show (and don't plan on it), but in the book, the main girl was not raped -- her friend was while passed out at a party and she was hiding in a closet, aware of what was happening (not saying that's any better, just saying how it may have been different from the movie). Also, the counselor wasn't nonchalant, but there wasn't any notification to the parents. The counselor scene was odd to me. The girl was almost challenging the counselor in her mind to ask the right questions and to call her back when walked away at the end of the session and through her thoughts acted like if the counselor had, she would have changed her mind.

From what I've heard about the movie or show, it's much more graphic and many of my daughter's 17 year old friends said it was too much for them and seemed to be glorifying suicide, saying that you can get attention and seek revenge by doing so.

Well, in the show, her friend was raped in the way you described, and for some reason Hannah later (in almost what seems like self-destruct mode) goes to a party at the rapist's house, gets in a hot tub with him and some other kids, and finds herself alone with him when the other kids leave. I believe she wants to challenge him about what he did (can't remember if she did or not) and ends up getting raped herself. The counselor scene was also weird in a similar way to what you described - she was hoping he wouldn't let her go but he did. I believe also, that the counselor basically told her that since there was no evidence, she was just going to have to find a way to live with it/get over it. He didn't get her help at all, didn't even offer to call her parents.

It wasn't a show I'd usually watch, but since I have two kids in that age range, who I knew would probably watch it, or hear about it from their friends, I thought I needed to check it out to be able to discuss it. My son had already watched it and we talked about it together.

The whole concept seemed pretty weird (about the tapes, I mean). In the time she took to record those tapes, she could've come to a better decision than suicide. I have no idea why she didn't talk to her mom about the rape.

[wishiwasinhawaii]

Originally Posted by met fan

I'm a nurse who works in mental health. I work on an adult, short term inpatient unit. We do not take children. We send children that need admissions to other facilities. We usually see 1 or 2 children a week. The last month we have seen a huge increase in children needing placement. Last week, we had 7 adolescents awaiting placement in the ED. Many are there for days because the facilities that take kids are full. This has been unheard of in the past. Many speculate that the movie glamorizes suicide. I have not seen the show.

This is sad. I'd like to know what the producers of this film/book were thinking. I haven't seen this and won't, but it seems irresponsible to me. I went to school to become a guidance counselor and I can't imagine any counselor would completely ignore a student reporting a crime and tell her to "get over it". Wow.

[hotncmom]

I just fast-forwarded a bit to refresh my memory.

After she made Tape 12, she says something shifted and she felt a bit better and wanted to give life one more chance and get help. She goes to talk to the counselor at school. In the course of the conversation, she mentions wanting it all to end. He finally gets her to talk about what happened.

"Did he force himself on you?"
"I think so."
"You think so? But you're not sure? Did you tell him to stop?"
"No."
"Did you tell him no?"
"No."
"Maybe you consented, then you changed your mind."
"No, it's not like that!"
"Should we involve your parents or the police?"
"No!"

He tells her that when a student is assaulted, he's required to go to the police, but he needs to know exactly what happened, and who did it.

She says "If I tell you, will you promise me that he'll go to jail? And that I won't ever have to see his face again, that I won't ever have to face him?"

He says he can't promise her that, but he will promise to do everything in his power to keep her safe and protect her in this process.

He says if she can't give him a name, if she doesn't want to press charges, or isn't sure she can press charges, that there's really only one option - to move on.

All of this makes her very upset, so despite his weak references to seeing about "other resources", she walks out of his office, his phone rings and he moves on to other things instead of going after her.

He should have called her parents right after she said the boy forced himself on her and not stopped until he knew that she was getting help from other sources.

The counselor was completely negligent.