Did decades of squats and crunches herniate my disc?

[firmbogie]

Hi, everyone. I've been a member here a long time, rarely post anymore.
I had back surgery last year, I have a herniated disc L5-S1. I am currently fighting my way back to consistent workouts.
Something interesting I learned through multiple physical therapy sessions, and consults with rehab physicians. Crunches, and weighted squats, no matter how perfect the form, are terrible for your discs. Evidently they put tremendous pressure on the disc, which can exacerbate low back pain. No one could tell me if this could cause my herniated disc in the first place, but I had been doing these moves since my 20s--I'm now 52.
This honestly has been the worst thing that has ever happened to me, I still deal with significant pain daily. If I had known, I wouldn't have ever done these moves, there are so many others that are equally effective.
This forum stays pretty busy, I was interested if anyone else had similar experiences? TIA

[gigi]

I'm sorry to hear this Mary and hope your recovery is speedy. I will be watching with interest for replies to your question regarding squats and crunches.

[F1mom]

I'm so sorry to read this Mary. I've been doing crunches and squats on and off since my early 20s. I know a lot of VFers here have had issues with crunches.

Most of the workouts I do include enough standing ab work that it's rare I do crunches any more.

[eyefit]

I don't know about weighted squats (as long as your form is perfect and you aren't trying to squat more weight than you are conditioned for), but I have heard that if you are only doing crunches without correspondingly strengthening the low back and obliques (like say with plank work) then you can set yourself up for a muscle imbalance that can hurt your spine. If the rectus muscles are strong but the rest of the core is weak, it can set you up for back problems.

The same is true for knee problems...muscle imbalances lead to knee injuries and pain. My PT made me realize I was weak in the posterior chain (quads were stronger than hamstrings and glutes) which caused my knees to misalign during high impact, step aerobics (or just walking up steps) and while doing squats and lunges. End result: chondromalcia patellae. I'm now super aware of working my muscles evenly, and especially the posterior chain muscles all the way from my rear delts down to my hamstrings.

[marmact]

I think "it depends." Any move is suspect if it is done poorly over a period of time. (Which isn't meant to criticize you, so please don't take it like that. It's just that I've read different professionals making blanket statements about the danger inherent in pretty much every move at one time or another. I think it's important to take those statements with a huge grain of salt.)

I think squats get a bad rap because the form SEEMS like something that's easy to replicate, but it's easy to go awry (track with the knees, knees past the toes, failure to engage the glutes, etc.). I tend to squat with dumbbells instead of a barbell because I feel like I have more control that way. I also learned a lot from Chalene Johnson, who gives excellent form tips in CLX.

I agree that crunches seem like they'd be pretty dodgy on the back if you don't already have a strong core, because if your core isn't already strong, you'd probably use either the hip flexors or the lower back to pull yourself forward. I'm not a big fan of traditional crunches and rarely do them.

I'm sorry to hear about your surgery. I hope you can get back to normal soon. My DH has a bad back and I know how absolutely disruptive it can be for doing the simplest things in life.

[Exercise Diva]

Originally Posted by firmbogie

Hi, everyone. I've been a member here a long time, rarely post anymore.
I had back surgery last year, I have a herniated disc L5-S1. I am currently fighting my way back to consistent workouts.
Something interesting I learned through multiple physical therapy sessions, and consults with rehab physicians. Crunches, and weighted squats, no matter how perfect the form, are terrible for your discs. Evidently they put tremendous pressure on the disc, which can exacerbate low back pain. No one could tell me if this could cause my herniated disc in the first place, but I had been doing these moves since my 20s--I'm now 52.
This honestly has been the worst thing that has ever happened to me, I still deal with significant pain daily. If I had known, I wouldn't have ever done these moves, there are so many others that are equally effective.
This forum stays pretty busy, I was interested if anyone else had similar experiences? TIA

Is this all weighted squats or those with a barbell balanced across your shoulders? I can't see how a squat with dumbells held in your hands by your side for example and using good form would cause damage to your spine. I agree with the crunches hurting your back and for the most part avoid these now.

[mabyrd1]

My husband just had back surgery on L5-it rupured and a piece of the disc was in his nerve. He has not EVER done a squat and probably never a crunch!!! Maybe a potato crunch-LOL!! He is 43 and he said it was VERY painful, when he wake up from sugery he had back spasms-DID you hear him, he probably scared everybody at the hospital with his screams!! IT was awful!! He is doing better now 2 of his toes are numb but the back is better and the nerves are healing, dr said it would take a while. Me I have no back problems and I do squata/crunches daily. Hope you feel better!!

Thanks
Jeannie

[Gibbee]

I think that discs are a lot like shoulders... we all have different spaces between our bones, different genetic make up and genetic material (some of us made to last forever, some of us not so much), different injuries or falls that we no longer remember happening but may have started something years ago, aging, etc., so you can't really, definitely define one thing that triggers the issue.

Here is a picture of what I am referring to about shoulders. This would be why some people can do shoulder work every which way every day and it not bother them and why some of us are injured just by looking at a dumbbell wrong... http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwAA&dur=1142

I would think that vertebral discs would be similar... they are different in each of us. I'm sure there are other opinions of what might help or hurt, though.

Regardless, I am so very sorry to hear about your surgery regardless. How terrifying and painful this ordeal has been for you. I wish you fast healing and pain relief!

[dbclark44]

I seldom do lower body work using a bb. I've never liked the feel of it across my shoulder/back area so subbed a light set of db. Although, I don't lift heavy for the lower body. My body weight is challenging enough for me so the heaviest I may hold for lunges and squats is 10# and go up to 20 for deadlifts. I never saw a need to lift heavy on the lower body. It was just never my thing to work it that way especially when I feel like I work it fine without the weights.

[Debbie S.]

(((Mary))) It really is hard to say what caused your disc herniation. Sometimes it happens with naturally aging.

Mine was due to a car accident back in Jan. 1995. My level was L-4 L-5. I had my first surgery six months after my accident. Six months later I was hit again and had to have another microdisectomy with a lami. Unfortunately, this was a failed surgery, and a year after my second surgery, I had a microdisectomy and a fusion. Upon awakening, I honestly wanted them to put me back to sleep. It wasn't the fusion itself that was excruciating, it was the area where they took bone from for my fusion. Til this day, that area is still very painful. That pain will never go away.

Without a doubt, this was the most excruciating pain that I have ever been through in all my life. I had to have two lumbar discograms after my 2nd car accident, and honestly, I wanted to die. The pain from the dye was so excruciating I thought I was going to go mad, and there wasn't anything that could be be done. Even the foot long needle that was used wasn't nearly as bad at the dye.

Recovery was long for me, and it really didn't start until a year after my fusion. All I did for the first 8 months was walk outdoors. I did nothing else, because I couldn't. I had a lot of nerve damage so I invested in a pair of walking poles. It can take up to 3 years for nerve damage to heal, and it took 3 years for the majority of the nerve damage to heal.

All I can recommend to you at this point is to walk as much as you can, preferably outdoors. Walking will be your savior. Stay as active as you can, too, because sitting and laying isn't good for your back.

Sleep with a pillow between your legs and on your side. Til this day, this is the only way I can sleep. If something happens and I wake up on my back minus my pillow, the pain level is quite high for a few days.