OFF TOPIC: Need Some Suggestion Regarding Feline Kidney Disease

[Susan G.]

I've had no personal experience with a pet on k/d, but I did public relations for Hill's a decade ago. I can tell you that k/d was the original food in the Prescription Diet line, and the most widely prescribed. And after seeing the company from the "inside," I was impressed with their research and commitment and continued to use their products after I no longer worked with them.

[cybil]

UREA (which is probably same as BUN) 22mmol/L (normal is 3.6-10.7 mmol/L)

Creatinine 233umol/L normal is 27 - 186 umol/L **I think your numbers for this is different. On a UK site I read the sub-q fluids would be given for Creatinie over 300 (US 3.5) so I'm not sure if this is an exact translation

Other numbers out of whack:
Aymlase (AMYL) 2431 U/L normal is 300-1100
Iron is low but I can't see that on the printout they gave me

Fortekor is benazepril, known as Lotensin in the US and is an ACE inhibitor. A similar med is Enacard. These are not prescribed as often in the US it may help cats but not all and the UK info I read seemed to think that it could raise Creatinine. It suggested rechecking the bloodwork after 7-10 days. Being as that was very expensive I do not think it is something I could do. I only have 16 days worth and I am supposed to call back the vet so I guess we can discuss that then.

They gave me another zippy of the Medi-Cal reduced protein dry and they have an open one and I bought one can each of Reduced Protein and the Hills regular K/d, they did not have any chicken left. She will check on the Purina Vet k/d and Royal Canin one for me as they do not have that but they do not carry those but the person I was talking to does the ordering.

[jfs]

I had a problem with Royal Canin Prescription Diet. They had made a mistake in the processing of their food. They added something that was potentially harmful in error. I didn't find out until after a month of feeding RC exclusively to my cat. Luckily his health wasn't compromised, but I was not comfortable using their product any longer. I know mistakes happen, but I just wanted to let you know what happened to me so that you can better decide what to do.

[Kathryn]

Are you giving sub-Q fluids? If you aren't, you probably should be.

I had a cat who died of chronic renal failure (advanced kidney problems, with a few months to live) and gave him sub-Q fluids daily, along with the K-D diet, and some antacids (?) to help wth acidity. It definitely made him feel better, and prolonged his life for a few months.

I now have a cat who has renal problems. I've been feeding her K-D, and giving her sub-Q fluids as well. At first, it was 3 days a week, now it's down to 1-2 times a week, because her kidneys are better (they can regenerate to a certain extent if they are not to far gone, and her's weren't: previous numbers "sick old cat," now just 'old cat'!).

When I was dealing with Frisco's CRF, I found a helpful forum on the web. Just search "feline chronic renal failure" and it should come up. Lots of tips and ideas, and people who have gone through the same thing.

[cybil]

The Vet didn't recommend Sub-Q fluids. I have to call him after 2 weeks and I will talk with him about it then. The cat didn't crash or need IV fluids. I talked with the receptionist (I'm not sure if they are trained as vet assistants or not) yesterday when I picked up the numbers. She said they do that at the clinic if necessary, not sure what the cost is or if you have the option to do at home. They do prescribe the Fortekor long term, as that seems to be more the stand of care here, I do not know if is approved for kidney disease in the US.

I checked out a conversion calculator for the numbers which they say does SI to US, which I find funny as the US numbers are in SI as well it's just that they are mg/dL not mmol/L. I'm also not sure if UREA and BUN represent the same thing. I did find the normal range on this calculator a little different from the Vet range. But using the calculator:
UREA was 61.62 mg/dL and Creatinine was 2.63 mg/dL

The numbers are not horrible. I think he is getting a good result with his vitamins for his low iron. He seems a little peppier. I will call the company that makes his regular canned food to check out the phosphorus numbers. He seems to be eating more but doesn't seem to be drinking much or maybe he was drinking too much before. I do wonder what his numbers would have been if we had blood work done last year when he was in rough shape (they wanted us to come back for it, there was a blizzard when he was to return, he was improving and then DH and I were in disagreement over the situation as he thought we should put him down). We did have bloodwork done the year before, I should see if I can get that to compare.

[lshipley]

AZODYL!!!!! I have 2 cats with kidney problems, and this has brought their BUN and Creatnine down to almost normal - no sub-q fluids needed, no worry about not eating K/D or the Roayl Canin


Here's the website (and you don't need a prescription, it's a natural bacteria introduced into the intestines and works like dialysis.) It's being checked for human use now.

http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/pages/global_06.html

http://www.kibowbiotech.com/html/newsroom.htm

There's another product - Epakitin, if their phosphate levels are also off.

http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/pages/global_02.html

Lots of pet stores online carry it - even ebay and amazon.com.
It's working miracles on my cats (and one of them has feline AIDS and it's brought him around. I thought he was going to die over Christmas - now he's up running around and putting weight on again.

My vet has used it for both dogs and cats and it's working!

[SueNJ]

As has already been said, CRF is not necessarily an immediate death sentence. Many cats with CRF live months or years, and end up dying of something completely unrelated to the CRF. My 14-year-old kitty, Beau, was diagnosed, and with meds and sub-q fluids, he lived a year with severely reduced kidney function. Through an ultrasound and analysis of his symptoms, we discovered that Beau also had pancreatitis (which apparently can both cause kidney failure and be a secondary symptom of it). Once we treated that, his appetite came back and he was like his old self--and I mean how he was when he was 5 years old. I didn't realize just how gradually he'd gone downhill until we got him back on track.

Beau was on Hill's Prescription k/d and I swore by the stuff. He went through phases with it, at times only liking the dry food, and other times refusing everything but the chicken-flavored canned food. As long as he was eating, I gave him whichever version he wanted. When he was in fussier modes, I'd buy tuna in water (no onions in the broth) and would add a little bit of that to his canned food. I also bought him a kitty water fountain to encourage him to drink more water.

We were given another wonderful year with him before he finally experienced an irreversable "crash" and decided he'd been through enough. It was extra effort, and certainly an extra expense that not everyone can handle, but I would do it again without hesitation.

Administration of sub-q fluids is very easy to do. There is no reason why it can't be done at home--it took about 5 minutes of instruction from the veterinary assistant at my vet's office, and a little bit of experimenting with Beau to figure out how to keep him calm and still long enough to get the fluids in him. It ended up being our special time together, even though the whole process took less than 10 minutes. That said, some cats, and certainly some owners, aren't conducive to doing sub-q treatments at home. Cats who won't sit still or refuse to be restrained may have to be treated by the vet. Since sub-q treatments usually have to be done at a minimum, once per week, and more typically, every other day or even every day, this can be a logistical nightmare, not to mention an expense.

Just like with my own health issues, I found I needed to be educated about Beau's condition, and found the online forums and informational web sites to be a valuable source of info about caring for CRF cats.

[cybil]

I will have to ask the vet about Azodyl. We have now tried all 3 options for the canned food. The Hill's chicken k/d was ok - he seemed to leave the rice in the bottom but I did have him go back for it. The medi-cal reduced protein wasn't too bad, but the Hill's regular k/d is horrible. It is way too think and doesn't soften much in the microwave. His regular canned food is President's Choice Nutrition 1st chicken which I now hear has started to become available in the US too. Problem is it isn't on any of those online lists and when I called, they did not have the phosphorus levels. Most President's Choice stuff is made by another company - it's like a higher end of NoName, but they will not divulge the original manufacturer. So if I don't hear back from them I may need to pick another non vet food as a second option. I may buy a case of the medi-cal reduced protein cans. I've been alternating the PC one with the other cans I am trying and for the regular kd I have to mix it to get him to eat that thick paste. He is also eating some of the medi-cal reduced protein dry - he will eat from my hand but only pick at the bowl. He seems to be having more food and less water now, that may be a good thing. I just hope he is drinking enough.

I know why he has been peeing upstairs, he can't go down the stairs just up them (litter box is in the basement). Being as he isn't that clean, we can't put another box on the main floor due to the mess and the children. I am teaching him to go down stairs again. Friday night he made it all the way down but he was slow and ended up peeing before he made it to the box.

[lshipley]

Azodyl takes about 4 weeks to get preliminary results so give it at least that much time for a recheck. The company recommends at least 60 days, but when I took my cats in after 4 weeks, the results were remarkable, and their quality of life has returned.
The gelcaps are big, but they seem to go down easily- I was a bit scared of their size, but haven't had any problems.
Lori

[cybil]

Sue - we were posting at the same time - I was just very slow