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Old 01-08-14, 02:02 PM  
3ks
 
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Originally Posted by eyefit View Post
So I begin my next round of STS this week and plan to do disc 2: Back and Biceps tomorrow. I will be thinking of this post and channeling my anger at that infuriating double standard to work on those dang pull ups.
Hey! I just did that disc 2 (back/triceps) of Meso one today! LOL. We are doing the same rotation. You are one month ahead.

Did you have problems with that disc? Mine freezes and skips. I heard this happened to a few VFrs. ???
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Old 01-08-14, 02:31 PM  
Helen S
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Originally Posted by kalliope999 View Post
I love this post. Within the practical confines of one's own body type, people should be able to prefer any look they want for themselves without being made to feel bad about it: hard & muscular, slim & soft, super-built mass, lean & mean, average, athletic, etc. Just because you aim for certain aesthetics for yourself at any given time doesn't mean that you're judging others who choose or have a different look. Sometimes I think in embracing women's strength, muscles, and fitness we can accidentally swing in the opposite direction and shame women who have different goals than we do. Manners are essential!

My best friend since my teens is naturally very slim and long-limbed, and she has to work like the dickens to put on muscular shape. In junior high people were always asking me if she had an eating disorder, and all her life people have commented on her being "scrawny," having knobby knees, or have told her to "eat something." She finds it just as hurtful as comments made to others about their overweight looks.
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Originally Posted by sophiesmom View Post
That is true. DH played HS football with huge (muscular) dudes who could lift obscene amounts of weight..but in gym class they struggled with pull ups!
The "skinny dudes" could bang them out like nothing.
I agree with these points. I also had people telling me to eat when I was younger because they thought I was too skinny. A guy saw me running in track and said that I had chicken legs. Also, you can't tell how strong a person is just by looks. My younger DD just had her high school Fitness test in high school. She can do 7 unassisted pull-ups and 50 toe push-ups (even though her PE teacher said it was o.k. to go down on her knees since she was a girl). She is 5'4" and is built like a ballet dancer. She doesn't lift weights but does a lot of bodyweight stuff because of dance. When I was younger, we didn't need to do pull-ups but I could hang from a flex bent arm position forever. My PE teacher told me to stop after I was just hanging for a long time.

I think doing pull-ups is like running. You need to do them regularly to be good at it. However, it's also similar to running in the sense that not everyone wants to do a marathon or even a 5K. For some people, they don't have a goal to do unassisted pull-ups. As long as they're doing some strength training whether it's bodyweight, weights, kettlebells, etc., it's all good.

I do agree that if a woman wants to join the military, then they should be held to the same standards as men. I would expect that with any job.
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Old 01-08-14, 02:49 PM  
eyefit
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Originally Posted by 3ks View Post
Hey! I just did that disc 2 (back/triceps) of Meso one today! LOL. We are doing the same rotation. You are one month ahead.

Did you have problems with that disc? Mine freezes and skips. I heard this happened to a few VFrs. ???
Cool! my disc didn't freeze on me today, thank goodness. Nothing raises my blood pressure faster than when I'm humming along with a DVD and it freezes!

Gee, I hope I don't sound like an angry person. LOL I'm not angry...I am passionate however.
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Old 01-08-14, 02:59 PM  
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Originally Posted by kalliope999 View Post
My best friend since my teens is naturally very slim and long-limbed, and she has to work like the dickens to put on muscular shape. In junior high people were always asking me if she had an eating disorder, and all her life people have commented on her being "scrawny," having knobby knees, or have told her to "eat something." She finds it just as hurtful as comments made to others about their overweight looks.
Of course she does! That's horribly, inexcusably rude.
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Old 01-08-14, 03:16 PM  
Sarah-lara
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Negative comments about one's looks are always unhelpful and extremely rude. Negative comments about the natural phenomenon that occurs when most women get stronger is more along the lines of what I think the author was getting at -- more of a cultural "keeping women in their place" type of thing.
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Old 01-08-14, 04:35 PM  
eyefit
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Negative comments about one's looks are always unhelpful and extremely rude. Negative comments about the natural phenomenon that occurs when most women get stronger is more along the lines of what I think the author was getting at -- more of a cultural "keeping women in their place" type of thing.
To quote Steven Colbert: "NAILED IT!!!"
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Old 01-08-14, 05:34 PM  
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Fantastic post. We all have different bodies, goals, likes and dislikes when it comes to fitness. In the end, if we're moving it's all good.

P.S. Hope you are staying warm, Jeanne. Looking forward to the warmer temps soon, aren't you?
Thanks, Cheri!

I am staying warm, but I stayed home for a few days there. The cold was too much for me. I am really looking forward to spring! I hope you are doing well!
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Old 01-09-14, 08:19 AM  
eyefit
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So here's an interesting perspective. I was having this same discussion on another fitness forum and a woman who is now in the military spoke up on the subject. I asked her if she thought pull ups were a necessary requirement. In other words, did she feel it was an arbitrary requirement with no real bearing on what was required in the field or did she think training for that kind of move and that kind of strength was beneficial or even necessary.

Here was here reply (quoted with her permission). She did give the caveat that others in the military may not agree, but that she stands by what she said!

Quote:
Definitely not. The military conducts physical fitness tests (the requirement is twice a year for my unit) but they don't really measure functional strength at all. For the army the tests are two minutes of situps, two of pushups, and a two mile run. You are awarded points based on how fast you run and how many you can do. I guess it gets a feel for how "fit" you are but...I mean, you know- the number of pushups you do doesn't really translate into...anything. I think for the marines they also have the pull-up component (pull-ups aren't a requirement in the army- they're just encouraged).

I am in a combat support branch so for my job I really would never need to do a pullup- even in a combat situation while deployed. Push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, etc are only used for evaluation purposes because there's no other way to set a standard for thousands of people. The type of strength you need (even for combat branches like the infantry) is more enduranced based: carrying weight over long distances, supporting/carrying around a weapon, being able (physically) to wear armored vests, armored helmets, etc for long periods of time, carrying other people in addition to your body weight/equipment weight, and being able to manuever quickly and effectively with weight.

In short it isn't fair or accurate to say that a woman who can't do pullups also can't run/walk/ruck twelve miles carrying 35 pounds in three hours (which is something you might actually need or be required to do in the army). it isn't fair or accurate to say a woman can't be successful in the marines if she can't do pull-ups. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter because the military is a huge organization that has to have some way of selecting members and evaluating physical readiness and it chose pull-ups and push-ups.
I thought it was very interesting that what she mentioned was actually needed for combat readiness was really more endurance based functional type fitness. Thought I'd share her inside perspective.
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Old 01-09-14, 10:24 AM  
Debbie S.
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Originally Posted by Diane135 View Post
Debbie you are always such a wealth of knowledge. I loved the link and Googled Grease the Groove and I'm intrigued. As someone with long, gangly arms, pushups and pull-ups have always eluded me. I'm going to give "greasing the groove" a try.

Diane, let us know how it goes.

My pull up is always up. I have it up between my bedroom and master bathroom.

Colleen, the missing component missing in this discussion is, MENTAL TOUGHNESS, which is an important aspect for any training, but especially for the military. My dad retired from the Marine Corps, and their logo was/is, Mean Green Fighting Machine. He became a US Marshall one day after he retired, and their requirements were just as tough.

Something that Tony Horton says in one of the P90X workouts:
"Don't say you can't. Say you are presently struggling!"

As for pull ups. It's a kick butt body weight exercise. I always wear a heart rate monitor during my workouts, and my heart rate is always in the high 140s to low 150s when I'm doing pull ups.
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Old 01-09-14, 10:44 AM  
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When I'm lean I get those comments all the time. My arms, heck my whole body, is pretty muscular with little to no encouragement from me. In my 20s I was into bodybuilding but I started out stronger with full muscles. Mesomorphic body type I was told. Now, even though I do mainly barre and yoga and haven't touched weights in 10 years, in the summer I get comments like "I wouldn't want manly arms like you" and other comments that are too hurtful to share. I'm also very curvy so an extra 10 pounds can hide the muscles, but then I'm told I'm too fat and should lose weight. So yes, in my experience, there is a pushback against strength in women.
m42...wow, how rude! Why do people think it's OK to say whatever they are thinking? If it's any consolation, I'm extremely jealous of you! I cannot get cut arms even with heavy lifting, and I do want them. I'll bet you look awesome.

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