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Old 01-08-14, 08:07 AM  
sophiesmom
 
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Originally Posted by Jeanne Marie View Post
I think it's important to remember that everybody looks different, and everybody has their own idea of what looks good for them.

That doesn't make anybody wrong. If a woman doesn't want to look really muscular, that's okay. If she does, that's okay too.

What people need to realize is that good manners go a long way. If you are saying you think a really muscular look is "gross" or "manly", chances are you are insulting someone who has that look. The same way it is insulting someone long and lean if you say that it isn't okay to want the long and lean look. Tempering what we are saying with grace and compassion is important.
Agreed! Plus, don't judge a book by it's cover. You don't know by looking at someone what they can or cannot do. You'd be surprised.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:10 AM  
Jeanne Marie
 
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Originally Posted by Sara1000 View Post
SO true! All the time I was growing up in 50's & 60's I was shamed for my 'skinny' body - how times have changed! Nowadays they would have envied me. I don't think we should insult OR compliment people on how they look!
Yep! It's a slippery slope when you comment on someone's looks, no matter what side of the equation they are on. My personal experience is that people like to comment on how much I weigh. I realize that many of them are not meaning to be insulting, but as someone who trys hard to build muscle and keep a little weight on, it's a little disheartening when people are always saying things about my weight. I had a complete stranger tell me one time that I needed to eat a sandwich. Now that's rude. It isn't any less rude than me walking up to someone overweight and telling them they need to quit eating so many sandwiches.

It's just not okay to comment on weight, build, body type... any of it. You never know a person's history, and even a well intentioned comment could be hurtful.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:12 AM  
Sue B
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Originally Posted by Sarah-lara View Post
I find it surprising you haven't heard that, Sara. It's been voiced many times here and used as a marketing tool by several instructors (you don't want to look like a man, you want a long, lean look, etc.)

But if you really want to see some ugliness, try reading the comments section on newspapers when they run articles on fit women (soccer players, Olympians, celebrities, etc.). There will be lots of "eww, gross" comments, and not just from men.
I've seen that a lot, too. On VF, there have been many more threads asking "how not to bulk" than "how can I bulk up."
http://forum.videofitness.com/tags.php?tag=bulking

I used to work with a gal who competed in figure contests. She didn't look outrageous, but you could tell she worked out. The other women in the office were very admiring to her face, but made fun of her behind her back, calling her "Miss Ahnold" and other names.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:13 AM  
LoveVA
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne Marie View Post
I think it's important to remember that everybody looks different, and everybody has their own idea of what looks good for them.

That doesn't make anybody wrong. If a woman doesn't want to look really muscular, that's okay. If she does, that's okay too.

What people need to realize is that good manners go a long way. If you are saying you think a really muscular look is "gross" or "manly", chances are you are insulting someone who has that look. The same way it is insulting someone long and lean if you say that it isn't okay to want the long and lean look. Tempering what we are saying with grace and compassion is important.
All very true, especially the part that I bolded. And to Sara1000's point (sorry, I don't know how to multi-quote in a reply), I've seen some very strong people in my bikram yoga class who are also very slender and lean. Strength comes in many shapes and sizes.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:27 AM  
eyefit
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What do you guys think of the military delaying the pull up requirement for female recruits and talk of lowering the standard to accommodate women? I personally don't think the standards should be lowered to accommodate females. I feel that women who choose to join the military and the Marines should be prepared to train hard and appropriately to meet the qualification. It appears it hasn't been stressed enough in their training, thus the delay in the requirement.

I really think they need reconfigure the training methods so that the women can be on par with the men and meet the same standards. Caitlin's post discussed the fact that people often approach female training with lower standards to begin with because they assume their weakness, their inability and their frailty. IMHO, this just doesn't fly if one wants to be in the Marines. We are talking about a type of strength that is crucial in their field of duty. There lives may literally depend on it! A trained woman may never be able to do as many pull ups as a trained man, but I think they should at least be able to meet the minimum requirement.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:35 AM  
Sue B
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I think it's going to be hard to talk about Marine or military regulations without going political and off-topic. But personally, I'd like to see the same training and testing for both sexes in all professions. You don't hear about different standards for male and female teachers, or doctors or lawyers, why should the military be any different. Even if it results in only one woman in the entire Marine Corps, so be it.
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Old 01-08-14, 08:58 AM  
Sarah-lara
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Originally Posted by Sue B View Post
I've seen that a lot, too. On VF, there have been many more threads asking "how not to bulk" than "how can I bulk up."
Lots of times there will be a "help!!" attached because gaining muscle size is apparently the worst thing ever, even if due to temporary water swelling. The funny/sad thing is that the women I know who lift the heaviest of heaviest weights are so tiny.

The first time I ever came into contact with this (and I grew up near Texas) was with a popular girl in my school. She was a dancer and cheerleader and all-around incredible athlete. But several other girls-- nice, well-meaning ones--- were talking one day about how sad it was her trainer messed up and "trained her incorrectly" because girls weren't supposed to have that noticeable muscle on their legs. And it was too bad because she was so pretty otherwise. (By the way, I looked her up a few years ago and found out she runs a gym. Good for her.)
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Old 01-08-14, 08:59 AM  
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I think physical requirements for the Marines should be re-evaluated and if they find that pull ups are NOT a good determinate of physical capability, then perhaps they should be removed. But, if the inability to do a pull up in any way jeopardizes a person or a group, then the standards should absolutely not be changed. Personally, I know many women who could pass the standards without even blinking. I don't happen to be one of them, but my daughter is. I couldn't be more proud of her (she's not trying to be a marine, but to keep up with the guys in Parkour).

I found this article interesting and sad in many ways. We should be celebrating the female body in all of it's various forms, not limiting ourselves to one specific look that defines beauty and all others are left out in the cold. I also hate how we women gossip about others behind their backs. To me, a beautiful woman is one who is comfortable in her own body, regardless of the shape of that body. I've spent my entire life trying to be "perfect", but I'm recently changed my goals - I want to love who I am. I've been doing mainly TA for the past few years thinking I needed to be more "feminine". I just ordered P90X3 and I'm going to enjoy the weight lifting every single day. I'm going to strive to love me for me, and to develop strength so that I can do what I love for me - not because someone tells me I should or should not.
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Old 01-08-14, 09:03 AM  
LoveVA
 
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Originally Posted by eyefit View Post
What do you guys think of the military delaying the pull up requirement for female recruits and talk of lowering the standard to accommodate women?
They should be held to the same standard. Men are starting from a stronger base level of upper body strength, so if delaying the pull up requirement means that the women have more time to train so that they can meet a single standard, then that's okay. But they should be held to the same standard. Those physical tests are there for a reason. They need to be able to perform the same tasks on the front line. It could be lifting heavy equipment or carrying wounded soldiers away from danger. You need the strength to be able to do that.

Here's the thing. While most women failed the pull-up test, 45% of them were at least able to meet the minimum requirement. So it can be done.
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Old 01-08-14, 09:12 AM  
eyefit
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Awesome Christine and I couldn't agree more! I feel the same way (about both points). Regarding the pull up standard, I think it should be looked at critically to determine if it truly is a necessary strength requirement in the field. I sort of could see it as being the case in my minds eye though. I picture someone needing to hoist themselves up and out of a situation where they would need that kind of strength in their lats, upper back, biceps, traps and triceps. I can picture a situation like that. Whether that's a true experience or just my imagination being influenced by the movies I watch is debatable (considering I have NO military experience ). lol

It's funny because I've always considered myself a feminist. However, I never thought about physical fitness being related to feminism until the last couple of years or so. It just didn't occur to me. I was never athletic when I was younger and just got really serious about working out in the last 4 years or so. As I have achieved my personal bests in physical fitness (and I really am fitter than I have EVER been in my entire life right now) I am starting to think about it from a different perspective that never occurred to me until now. Reading blog's like F&F has really opened my eyes. Now it's like of course physical fitness is a feminist issue. How could I have not seen that before? So, like you, my goals have changed over the years to be my personal best. For me that has meant achieving strength, cardio and endurance goals that I could never do before with the aesthetic angle being a pleasant side bonus to those goals. I push myself to achieve moves that I couldn't do before because it makes me feel good about myself. I feel proud, strong and happy.
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