is there a trick to doing boxing punches correctly?
 

I have been doing kickboxing workouts for years, and I enjoy them, but I still can't seem to get my punches right. My kicks look fine, but there is just something off about my punches (any of them). I look like I'm flailing around in sort of an uncoordinated fashion and without any power. If I do punches very slowly (like in the upper body portion of Kickbox Bootcamp where Keli Roberts uses weights) I'm OK, but as soon as there is any speed involved (like in Powerstrike) I'm hopeless. My husband says it looks like I'm not extending my arm enough, but I don't want to extend my elbow all the way straight, do I? I have followed the tutorial in Kickboxing for Dummies a couple of times now but still nothing has clicked. By the way, I have fairly good upper body strength, and my arms are not getting tired so that's not the problem I don't think. Also, I feel fairly coordinated on other workouts and can follow Cathe choreography and so on. Any suggestions?

Hi Bfit

I have been working out with professional boxers, and they teach us to fully extend our arm. I'm not sure why some video instructors tell us not to do so.

There's a discussion about this here, in my boxing thread:

http://forum.videofitness.com/showth...ghlight=boxers

It also helps if you imagine that you are punching an imaginary opponent. That way, your fist will stop short with some force at the end of the punch, then you bring it back quickly.

HTH

There is absolutely NO trick to punching correctly, there is just punching correctly. IMO, a lot of kickboxing DVDs are done by fitness people and are geared toward being "active" and not toward actual training in MA, boxing, etc., hence the tempo is too fast, especially for beginners, and encourages bad habits/bad form. Also, the fact that you're never actually hitting anything/anyone will negatively impact your form.

If you are really concerned about this, I'd suggest going to an actual boxing class (with, like, boxers, as has Red Panda) or a karate class.

As for fully extending the arm - I've never been taught not to do that. It has nothing to do with punching.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful, but I don't know how to teach punching (or kicking) over the internet. Mostly it's seeing what someone is doing and refining their technique.

I wrote this in RedPanda's journal but I'll repeat it here since her journal has lots of posts. :) I think DVD/video instructors are being cautious since they can't see you. So when they are saying to not fully extend your arm, I think they are just trying to prevent people from locking their elbows. So you would extend your arm short of locking.

Other tips I can give (which I don't know if you need) is to make contact with your first two knucles (your pointer and middle finger knuckles). You definitely don't want any contact with your thumbs but they're not tucked underneath your fingers either. Have a strong wrist, retract your punches, no elbows sticking out between punches. Use your hips (basically your whole body) for power and not just your arms. I don't have KB for Dummies but I'll assume that it tutors you on how to do each punch. Since you and your husband think your punches look fine going slowly, I would just practice punches slowly and just gradually increase your speed. I think going to a boxing or martial arts studio is a really good idea too. Most of them either let you try a class for free or have intro packages.

One thing to look for is keeping your elbows in (if you look at Cathe's earlier boxing/kickboxing workouts, she doesn't do this, but her form improves with each workout. It's actually very good in 4DS).

Try this: stand facing a mirror and punch while keeping your palms facing each other (it's easier to keep the elbows in this way.) After you've got the feel, now add the hand rotation, so the palm face down at the extension of the punch. Be sure not to let your elbows flair out.

As for extending the arm, you should never hyperextend the elbow in whatever you do. Extending the arm fully is fine if you are making contact with something (a bag, a person) which stops the mometum.

If you are shadowboxing (punching in the air, as most kb/bx workouts do), then stopping short of full extension is a safety measure to keep from hyperextending (which would be easier to do because you are not making contact with something to stop the momentum).

Focus on the recoil to keep from extending fully. and to work on speed. Think about the tongue of a snake going out and in quickly. Or imagine you are punching into fire (you want to get your hands back as fast as you can to keep from getting burned.)

It just takes practice. Your body has to have the repetition of the move to develop a sort of muscle memory. If you can't go at the speed the instructor is doing for now, find your own speed: as fast as you can with good form (to train that muscle memory). Speed will come with time. You can practice punches in front of the mirror. Start slowly. Then every 10 punches or so, speed up a little. You will discover the speed at which your form starts to go.

When I first started boxing/kb, it was with some Stephanie Steele videos (anyone remember her? very dry presentation, an absolutely horrible and boring warm-up, but good form and lots of drills). The punches felt so fast to me, and I couldn't keep up. And at times I felt like I was flailing. My body didn't want to work together the way it has to to throw a punch (which isn't just an arm move, but starts with leg power being taken through the core into the upper body).

A couple of years later, I dusted off my SS videos to try them again, and I was able to go FASTER than SS with good form!

Look at instructors like Amy Bento and Cathe. Their form wasn't that good at first, and it improved. Even ultra-fit instructors needed the practice and time spent doing the moves to get better.

I'll just add a few comments to the excellent advice which has already been provided.

In boxing class, the trainers teach us to do everything in slow motion at first so that we train our muscle memory. Only when we have the movements exactly right, do we speed up, but even then we're not going at full pace. It's a bit boring and frustrating, but it trains you to use good form from the start. Kathryn makes a good point about the training time needed to punch fast with good form - as our boxing classes have been cancelled until the New Year, I have been subbing Michael Olajide's Savage. In that video, Michael punches so fast, especially in the later rounds, that his hands are a blur. There's no way most home exercisers could keep up with him, but I noted that the back of the box says the workout is "professional-grade". So I have been punching at my own pace in front of a mirror and using Michael's cueing more as a motivational tool.

Bfit - if you don't do this already, I would suggest practising your punches in front of a mirror. Start off in slo-mo and up the pace only when you feel that you have the form down pat.

HTH :)

imagine your ex ;)



I'm only half kidding. For me it's critical to focus my eyes & attention on the place that I'm punching. If I'm distracted or, say, watching the TV screen, I feel like I'm doing as you describe -- flailing.

I have a lot of kickboxing & boxing workouts but the first one that really helped me with form is Gaiam Core Cross Train Kickbox, particularly the punches warmup. She really takes time to instruct on form and go slowly before moving into combinations & her tips help me with other workouts. I remember the first time I did this I was thinking "oh, so that's what I need to do".

Yep - that's a good one for working on your form. :)

IF you want to do kickboxing for exercise purpose and not self defence or sports purpose, it does not really matter what form you have as long as you don't hurt yourself (or others. lol!)

If you do want to do kickboxing for self defence of sports, then you do want to work on correct form in slow motion until you get it. Speed will come later.

There are more than one way to punch. Jab, Cross, Uppercut, and Hooks are basic punches, and there are more than one way to throw Jab.

I will try to explain the best in my own way. others might have different opinion.

Each instructors will teach you to throw punches differently.
For example, Some might liek to turn fist from vertical to horizontal as he/she punch (for boxers, this could rub against the skin of opponent and could irritate the opponent.). You don't have to though. Others migh be taught to do it otherwise without twisting and just throwing vertial or horizontal punch. They are both fine.

As for extending your arms, yes, you want to extend your arm fully (unless you are throwing hooks or uppercuts, that is. extending your arm fully applies to jab and cross.) But be careful of jerky movements (extending, then quickly retructing) and hurting your elbow.

Throw your punch from just where your hand is (which should always be right at your face, unless you are using your hand to excute something, or your punch follows right after other punch, i.e. throwing hook right after jab). Don't retract your hand, then punch. Don't drop your hand, then punch. Don't swing your elbow, then punch... etc.

Don't stick your elbows out, but try to punch as straight as possible.
Don't flick your knuckle as you punch.

Contact of the punch, if there is any, should come with your four fingers.

Keep tight fist. Do not put your thumb inside other four fingers. It could be very painful in self defence> you can basically break your thumb.

Don't don't really need a whole log of hip or leg movement while throwing a jab. If you wanted to throw a punch jab, you could put little bit of your body weight into it. this will be slower jab than other type of jab. As with otehr punches, always keep your chin tucked in, and keep "the other hand" at your chin.

Right after throwing the punch, you want the hand to retract right back to in front of our face (unless you are excuting another punch with that same hand right after. This depends on what type of punch you are throwing and in what way you want to use that punch. For example, if you were to throw ar jab, hook combo with same hand, you will throw a jab, retract half way just to bendyour elbow, and throw a hook. of course hand comes right back to in front of your face after that.)

You will need a lot of hip and feet movement with throwing a cross. (by the way, for self defence purpose, we don't throw our punches right to your side across your body and call it "cross." at this time) In order to throw a cross, you will have to have a lead leg and rear leg. your lead leg won't turn much, but you will need a good twist on your rear leg. Food twisting will cause your hip to create a movement, you will want to extend your hook as far as you can extend while you tuck your chin in. Right after the punch, retract your hand back to the starting position.

In order to throw an uppercut, you will want to drop your body a little by bending yoru knees a little bit, drop your arm a little bit (the one you want to use for punch), and come up. Your arm won't extend fully. Most of your punch power comes from your knees.

In order to throw a hook, you will want to retract a little bit to the opposite side of where you want to throw the punch. You will bend your elbow in 90 degree angle, (don't drop the other hand.), twist your body and excute the punch. (don't extend your arms fully.) Most of the punching power comes from twisting of your body. Don't forget to bring your hand back to your face. (but don't punc yourself in the face.)

Don't crose your eyes while excuting the punch.
exhale everytime you punch, Exhaling loudly is preferble so you will know and hear you are exheling.
Always keep your eyes on your target unless you are coveing your head for protection during certain techniques.

If you are wanting to do this for sports or self defence, you don't want to give out what you are about to do with your habit. for example, some people have a habit of putting the fist together once right before punching, or some people have a habit of dropping the hand before punching, etc. So avoid those habits if you have one. (Good way to find out is asking someone to take a look at your while you punch. Punch.... stop for a while..... punch.... stop for awhile... in a broken rhythm, see if the person can recognize when you are punching, and how he/she wans able to recognize it.)

In my opinion, it's very, very challenging to throw punches in correct form (as far as self defence goes) along with exercise videos. YOu will need to adjust your stance to right lead or left lead. You might have to slow down the tempo or even do your own exercise on your own while video instructors are doing something else and do your own combo.

If you want to take this seriously, punching bag is a tool you can use to work on your power. (not focus mitts with friends. They are used for other purposes like coordinations, target training, etc.)

Have fun. :)

hey I totally forgot about this drill and just remembered! Try practicing your jab against the wall. Stand not facing, but sideways to the wall and punch with the arm that is right against the wall to throw a jab. This exercise helps you not to stick your elbow out, but to punch straight. :)

At first, I read your post too quickly and only saw the part about jabbing against the wall. LOL!!! I was thinking, "OUCH!!!" Glad you clarified it with the rest of your post. :D

Don't you know that's how ninjas strenghten their fists? But only the sissy ones. the real tough ones practice jabbing on the hard rocks.
And master ninjas practice headbutting on huge swinging chunk of rock.

LOL!!! :D

While I agree with much of angel nee nee's post, I have to disagree with some aspects of it.

This is true for shadowboxing up to a point, but if you are aiming to hit a mitt or heavy bag, you do need good form or you could injure yourself. It's always best to start with good form because poor form is difficult to "unlearn" later.

:confused:

If you're trying to punch someone in the face, you're not going to be too fussed about "rubbing the skin of your opponent".

Also, it is important to twist your fist so that it is parallel to the ground when you strike the bag or mitt. You want to strike with the knuckles of your hand because this is the strongest part of your hand (and the part of the boxing glove with the most padding). If you fail to land a punch with the correct part of your glove, you will not only lose a lot of the power in your punch, but are also setting yourself up for injury, for example, but putting too much strain on your wrist or the delicate bones in your forearm. One woman has dropped out of my classes due to recurrent wrist pain, and I suspect this was the culprit.

This is incorrect. One of my boxing instructors, who has a lot of experience in bare-knuckle fighting, told me in my very first lesson to keep my thumb inside my fist (ie when not wearing a boxing glove).

thanks redpanda. (cute name. love it. :) )

sorry if I was confusing you or someone else about my comment that correct form is not that necessary if you are only doing it for exercise as long as you don't hurt yourslef or others.
When I said as long as you don't hurt yourself or others, that's what I meant, you do need to practice in a fashion you don't hurt yourself or others. You might not have to punch perfectly, but you do want to have basic structure like tight wrist so you won't injure yourself when you hit something. (plus, another thing is, it is always good to aim for good form just in case you decide you do want to try the self defence or sports later in life. :) )
Everyone please do be careful not to get hurt. Lots of warm ups.


As for the punching and rubbing against sking, don't worry about that comment. IT's sport thing. not every boxers do it, in fact, I think only few do this if any.... so your boxing instructor might think it's totally dumb and nonsense. ANd it might very may be... I never did a boxing match myself. It's more of a mind trick thing to try to annoy your opponent than anything.

Maybe I was confusing about horizontal and vertial punch.

I'm little bit curious about thumb thing, you mean the way your instructor taught you is to wrap the thumb inside other four fingers so it's totally covered?

Thanks. :)

Angel, what is your background? Your comments have me curious.

I really don't know how to respond to your post. I know you want to be helpful but to me it's difficult to tell someone what to do when you don't know what they're doing.

As for horizontal vs. vertical punching - there is no right or wrong; it's style dependent. My MA style (shotokan) uses a cork screw punch, while others (kenpo, isshin ryu) use the vertical punch. Red panda has described what boxers do. Also, we punch with the first two knuckles, not all four.

But none of this technical discussion might be helpful to someone who thinks they are flailing around. Perhaps her base form is really pretty good and it's just the tempo of the workouts that prevents her from completing the movements correctly. I don't know. You don't know.

I am sure I am highly biased toward live instruction because I am used to getting/giving it, but I highly recommend it. Most white belts' punching improves dramatically within their first month of training. It's a beautiful thing to watch happen. Kicking takes much longer, years for some people. I agree with Red Panda in that it's better to start with good form than to unlearn bad form.

Enough from me.

I agree, that's an excellent one for training and practiciing engaging the corte when punching and punching with the whole body.

IMO, if you keep your thumb inside the fist, it has to be the top part of the thumb only, just the tip, to protect it from getting jammed (if you put the first joint of the thumb in there as well, a hard punch could definitely break that joint by pushing the covering fingers down onto it---try both ways and you'll see what I mean).

Also, earlier Angel-nee-nee, you said to strike with all 4 knuckles. All instruction I've seen (on DVD's by black belts, and some in-person instruction at a karate studio) say the striking surface is the first two knuckles (the two strongest ones). Because of the way the top of the hand rounds a bit when you are making a fist, it's impossible to strike with all four knuckles unless you turn the hand in somewhat, which breaks the line of the wrist, risking injury, and are hitting a soft object). Try striking your opposite palm, and you'll see what I mean.

It was also my understanding (might be wrong) that the turn at the end of the punch adds a bit more power to the punch.

I was thinking about standing in a narrow hallway to throw punches, to train to keep the elbows in, but I didn't think it would be possible to find a narrow enough hallway, LOL! This would work just as well.

Yes, that's what I meant - I should have been more clear.

I'm glad you said that, Kyra. My kicking needs a lot of improvement, so now I don't feel so bad. :)

ETA - Happy Birthday!

Please don't take my advice too seriously. I do not mean to tell anyone what to do or not to do. I hope I did not sound that way. I was just trying to help out by sharing what I do from my very limited knowledge. As I said, I know each instructors train their students differently.

Kyra,
I don't get to practice much anymore since I got pregnant with first, but my background if JKD, Win Chun Kung Fu, boxing, Kali, Silat, Arnis, dumog, little savat, little bit of Thai boxing, little aikido, little jui-juitsu (mostly Brazilian), etc.

Kathryn,
I didn't add too much more but I was going to say the same thing about twisting, I peronslaly belive twisting at the end adds more power. I don't know if any of you care about Bruce Lee's philosophy, but he also believed tightening the fist at the end added more power also.

I think I might be ingnorant or confused about punching and knuckles. lol :p hehe.
are you punching with bending part of your finger? You know, finger joint part where fingers bend? Or the part where finger starts? When I hit, I actually ure more of other end of the hand (pinky and ring finger side) than pointer finger and middle finger side if I were to describe which side I am using more. maybe I have a fanky form. :p

I hit with the flat part of the knuckles, not the joint area (the 'bending part of the fingers'? I think that you're describing the joints). Never thought of hitting with the joints, but that would cause one to tip the hand down and again bend the wrist. (my poor left palm...I'm trying all these punch variations out on it, and it's getting sore! I must say, hitting with the joints does hurt it more! OUCH!)

okay that's what I thought. thanks for clarifying that. lol :D I was thinking that sounds painful myself. lol

There will be slight variations to technique based on what somebody is studying. In my first post, I wrote to make contact with the first two knuckles of the fist but then I noticed that angel said that she hits with all four knuckles (although I don't get the part of hitting closer to the pinky area). Also both angel and I said not to tuck the thumb inside the other four fingers but then RedPanda said that her instructor said to do this. However, RedPanda was talking about bare knuckle boxing which I don't do. When we spar, we wear gloves (not boxing ones) and there is no way my thumb can be tucked under the fingers with those gloves.

yeah exactly, we all learn differently. We all each have to find out waht works the best for you.
(I'm talking about for self defence and sports purpose)

What works for one person might not work for other because of the person's size, clothing, lifestyle, health, opponent, weapon availability, flexibility, quickness, strength, muscle mass, etc etc varies.

So it's okay if we all don't do it the same way.
Plus, we are all typing here and it's quite hard to describe what we are doing physically with word at least for me. lol!! As I type, in my mind I *think* I am doing things this way but watch me do it totally different in my real life when I practice. lol

But anyway, for orignal post question... bfit,
If you are doing for exercise only, important thing is you don't get hurt. Warm up, and if you are actually hitting something, don't hurt yourself by punching with the knuckles (lol), or punching yourself in the face with uppercuts (lol), or bending wrists, etc Wearing hand wrap will help you with wrists, there are some gloves that comes with the part you can wrap your wrist too.)

IF you are wanting to learn for serious self defence or sports, it's best to go to classes where you can be taught by instructors who can see your form and instruct you personally. :)

Interesting. Do you live in the city? I'd have to travel far and wide to hit all of those styles. Have you done gradings in all of them? If so, I'm jealous. I'm sticking to shotokan (with dabblings in BJJ and Seishindo) until black belt; at that point I'll probably continue on to nidan and start to seriously mess with something else (a more joint lock or grapping focused art - depending on what I can find).

Kyra,
Wow! Good for you....! I hope you will get to pursue your goal! Go for it!!!! :)
How do you like shotokan? OKay I am little getting off subject and hijacking the original topic here, sorry.... if you want to talk about our hobbies, we can always talk about it. Please feel free to pm me, or we can maybe start a martial thread.

I have gradings in some, but not all of them. I don't live in huge ciry there, but I have been blessed with wonderful oppourtunities as far as martial art learning goes. My husband has been passionate about martial art as well and started a martial art academy once. It started very small by teaching military people. (he was in the military) We always practiced and learned together back then, so I got to get involved in teaching too.

Then he got to expand his business and recruited many, many martial art instructors that teach different styles.

Long story short... we are not doing that business anymore. He is still teaching, but in much, much smaller scale and only three arts.

as for me.... This is even more off topic but I am realizing lately that since my pregnancy, all my hobbies, including and especially martial art has been put aside in order for me to take care of kids. Another day, someone asked me what my hobby was, and I realized well, I like this, but I'm not doing that anymore... I loved doing that, but I am not doing it neither.... becuase I had to put kids first......
which is okay. :) I do enjoy being a mommy and it has been a great blessing for me. :) I gladly sacrifice my hobby time.
But after that conversation I started to think, I should try to do something for myself..... so I can be cheerful and be a blessing to my family.

Getting back to video exercising that I love so much once again is one of my hobbies. :)

Martial art is still one of my passion.... maybe I get to be involved more when kids a little bigger.
Right now, we don't have a daycare or babysitter for kids during martial art hour while my husband teaches.



Anywho that was totally off subject, sorry...

I'm going to bed now. nite nite. :)

Oss. We punch with the first two knuckles. If your wrist is straight, those knuckles are backed by the stronger forearm bone (radius). I'm not really sure what y'all are saying about the thumb; we most definitely do not wrap the fingers around the thumb but it's tucked behind, not free.

We spar with gloves sometimes, sometimes not. Our gloves are like MMA gloves; you could wrap your thumb if you wanted, although obviously we don't.

I'm very happy with my school. I didn't really start out to study this style, but after trying out several places, this was the best fit. Our specific type of shotokan (kenkojuku) is more fight oriented than JKA shotokan; our stances are not as deep and there is more emphasis on free sparring than one or three step sparring. We also progress though the belts more slowly and do more kata, plus weapons.

I've been thinking for a while about starting a thread for those who study MA; sort of a roll call. That could be fun!

Kyra,

We said the same thing. Punch with the first two knuckles, strong straight wrist (no floppy or bent wrists), and don't wrap fingers around the thumb. However, there would never be contact with the thumb so it's not free. Angel is the one that said that she punches with all four knuckles and RedPanda said that for bare knuckle boxing, the thumb is wrapped.

I have to check my gloves to see if I could wrap my thumb. I could but since I never do, I thought I couldn't. We always spar with gloves. It covers the top part of my hand. The bottom part is open but there is a strap/band (made from the same material as the glove) that goes over the palm. Then there is grips for the fingers and a strap for the bottom part of the thumb. That's the best that I could describe it since I never looked closely at MMA gloves.

This is for Taekwondo sparring. We don't wear any gear for judo or jiu-jitsu.

Helen

Hey Ladies, Please do start a "Martial" thread. That would be fun :) I take kickboxing classes at a Tae Kwon Do place, and I love watching the martial arts classes. I would love to give Tae Kwon Do a try, but I guess I'm a little intimidated, although those that take the Tae Kwon Do classes think we work even harder than they do, lol.

Definitely a Martial Arts thread would be fun :)

Iris,

Don't be afraid to start. When you take classes, it will be tailored for your belt level. Kickboxing does require more cardio endurance than if somebody was doing technique. However, sparring will really improve your anaerobic endurance. Going two minutes against somebody is tougher than running, spinning, or doing a Cathe interval (at least for me).

Helen

No kidding! I remember the first time I did jiu jitsu live. Sensei said we'd go two minutes and I was like, just two minutes? HAhahahaha. Completely exhausting. You do build up over time, but there's a reason MMA fights are usually 15 minutes and people train like animals to make it through them.

But if you want to do it, I agree with Helen - do it!

Just a clarification - Angel said if you are punching with your bare fists in a self-defence situation, you should not put your thumb inside your fist. I responded that one of my teachers said that you should, in fact, put the first joint of your thumb inside your fist.

I was talking about bare knuckle fighting - ie no handwraps. If you had to unexpectedly defend yourself, you wouldn't have time to wrap your hands!

When wrapping our hands in boxing, we do in fact wrap our thumbs so that they are separate from our fingers, and wrap our first two fingers and second two fingers separately, then wear boxing gloves. There are instructional segments in some of the Michael Olajide and Tae Bo DVDs which show you how to do this.

Just adding that we always wear wraps and boxing gloves for sparring - the bare knuckle fighting thing was just an FYI. I have the impression that people think I'm a bare-knuckle fighter! :p

Thanks for clarifying. I did make the wrong assumption that you did both boxing with gloves and bare knuckle fighting.

wow it has been a while since we had this talk. HOw is everyone? I've been super sick from moring sickness. Bleah. But I hope everyone is doing well enjoying the workouts.

I was thinking of you and thought about this thread, and punching thing.
I did a review and found out that I was taught we are suppose to make contact with those two fingers (well not fingers but you know what I'm talking about) when punching. What do you know. I was not listening when I was taught I guess. lol

I thought I'd share it with you all :love: