music.....please delete
 

Nevermind....no comment

Must be ego. Their voices and their presentations must be front-and-center. I'm not really calling you out, Denise ... but you know ...

And maybe really, realllly liking the music of the cheaper, cover artists for the hit-like tunes. This accounts for some not-so-small part of me liking the American moldy-oldies, plus the exotic music from the other side of the globe ...

But the thread is still here.

What? Did Denise Austin complain to the moderator?
She knows what kind of also-ran music she chooses ...

I mean, people learn from her words and movements.
Umm, more visual learning types of people than (possibly) you but certainly me ...

No I was asked to remove it by the instructors that are flying under the radar and don't want attention brought to them, I never thought of that.....I feel bad........I never meant to do that......I only want good music but I guess I just have to shut up and accept some things for the way they are .....or long story short, foot in mouth which I'm very food at.

Did you click on the red "Report Post" triangle so Wendy will see it and be able to delete it?

I do remember Christi Taylor talking about how terribly expensive it is to license music for workouts.

(((hugs))) I'm sorry that you were made to feel this way from an instructor stalking the forum. If they're not doing anything wrong, they should have nothing to be afraid of. And this subject has been talked about plenty of times on this forum - you are not the only one who feels this way about music, so please don't feel bad. I suspect the reason your post got noticed is because you named one instructor in particular... :cool:

I think it's a good idea for instructors to visit VF to find out what is popular and what is not.

I think it stinks that an instructor would ask that a post be deleted. This is an open consumer forum. IMHO, only Wendy has the right to ask that a post be deleted.

Lora-sending hugs to you! I agree with Alta's post 100 percent!

Sherry

Really they can do that have a post removed because of why....? Well now everyone wants to know who it was so instead of avoiding attention they have attracted it. I don't think I read the original post or at least I don't remember it.

Commercialized Yoga or Yoga Fusion Instructor ...
 

I'm not surprised.

But then, I'd bet some yoga (fitness yoga) instructors think aparigraha and santosha are not exciting enough to do on a yoga mat; or that they even relate to physical movement at all ... ;)

I also agree with Alta's post 100%.

Ugh, no one should have to feel bad for posting something like this, especially since it was meant as a complimentary post. I get that the music industry has been tough as nails regarding copyright, but if an instructor is doing this illegally, they need to pay up or not do it. Asking a consumer to remove a comment on a public forum is bad form.

Lora, you did nothing wrong.

It's quoted in the 2nd post.

"All rights, public and private ... "
 

Seconding that!

If the workout gets too expensive for the instructor to make a DVD of (or a streaming of) with the circulation they have now; well, there's got to be a reason for these laws ... and, of course, there are those who will pony up for the higher (costs-passed-down-to-the consumer) price and those who will not. You know, there's always Denise Austin ... and others ;)

Be it Muzak or music, it still works ...:)

And I'm wondering if the instructor is flying under the radar regarding using music without rights or simply flying under the radar on this site.

The first would make me wonder about ethical business practices, the second prompts me to wonder whether or not the instructor is taking our responses as constructive feedback.

Exactly!

I can't help wondering at the real motives of those who've complained.

If your product is good quality, people will buy it.

If people are really enthusiastic, they'll talk about it happily in online forums.

If your product is sub-par, musically or otherwise, people will likely talk about that too.

Not sure how attempting to manipulate the flow of conversation, or shame someone into feeling bad for starting a discussion does anyone's business model any good.

I'm glad I don't know the names of the instructors behaving this way, I'm not impressed.

Main problem with the music in streaming videos is that nobody knows which songs are ok and which are not ok to use. Some are ok as long as the artist and title are given. Some are ok in some countries but not in other countries. I edit just about all of the routines I do because music is my main moving motivator. I got a copyright strike on youtube for a song which was later allowed but after my account had already been deleted.

Instructors like Jessica Smith would love to use better music in her jessicasmithtv routines but after having one soundtrack deleted by youtube, tries to avoid another violation. Nia will not let me share their OOP vhs routines because they fear copyright violations for the music they used.

Barb S

By the way, I was not faulting any instructor for using the site -- I was faulting the site for creating a whole business on stolen music. I thought people knew better by now.

Some musicians and music producers catering to the yoga world have been lax about copyright protection of their work for use in live for-profit commercial classes in NYC and LA.

I knew that from Facebook. I cannot 100% fault the site(s) for that (these yoga-derived exercise programs). They are used to the laxity; so then, they get creative with ground-breaking mélanges of yoga and another discipline or disciplines, so then they fall in love with other kinds of music than Krishna Das or Derek Beres, etc., so soon they take their playlists and migrate them to hip hop, pop and ... lo and behold ... an eruption of cease and desist orders from intellectual property attorneys ... !!

After reading the original post, I can pretty much guess who got in touch with you and wanted to "fly under the radar". Unfortunately, she also is one that has reached out to other VF'ers for what she sees as infractions they have said on this site. If you notice, the check ins don't use the true title of her work anymore, and don't use her name because she stalks them and singles them out for anything she doesn't think they should be saying.

This makes me stay very, VERY far away from the instructors work. I don't care if she gets me results, I refuse to have my actions and words controlled by an instructor on a public forum. She is getting the bully award from me, since I would have to say I'm 99% sure that's who it was.

I am very disturbed that she even had the ability to track you down, lorajc, and find you to send you a message. If she has an account on VF, please let Wendy know. She is very creepy. Please don't edit your words or delete anything because of some deranged "instructor".

As far as the music, from what I recall, you can use the songs if you do it like a DJ. Play a song, switch to another record/tape/CD/whatever. But, if you string the songs together into one big "mix tape", you need to pay royalties. I worked in a restaurant once that had this problem. If you get from any of those workout music CD places, you are covered since they are covered. If you break the law, don't tell me to shut up when I tell someone about it. That makes me louder.

ETA to say the instructor wants to be paid for their work so they charge for streaming. But they don't want to pay another artist for their work? Seems so hypocritical... I wonder if I will be gotten in touch with soon too for this...

Reminds me of a church meeting I attended the other night. We were brainstorming ways to raise money for a charity event, and someone suggested the church musicians record a CD that we could sell. A professional violinist in the group said, 'Please don't ask musicians to do extra stuff for free!' They voluntarily play for the church, but it stings when all their years of training and practice is expected to be donated.

Anyway, Ugh. I find the concept of an instructor directly contacting a VF poster highly inappropriate. Is this common?? I've never heard of this happening before.

I know exactly who you are referring to, because I've seen this instructor in action. But said instructor isn't the only instructor that we have had to change the spelling of their name, because they do read anything related to their workout, including check-ins. For anyone who is still guessing, no it is not TA.

It's beyond TACKY that any instructor would contact a VFer here and tell that VFer their post is inappropriate, and I really do think that LoraC should contact Wendy. This is OUR site and we should not have to censor our posts (yet we do) because a certain instructor.

I do agree that its hypocritical to say that they're flying under the radar, yet they CHARGE for their service. Lordy, now I've heard everything.

I'm guessing that some instructors who are streaming have gone the Spotify and other music streaming sites. But it's a guess. They choose the music and then create a playlist, so it's basically background music, definitely not a workout choreographed to music.

It should not be common, but it probably happens to others.

From the Instructor guidelines:
Obviously hard to enforce, but lorajc, you can contact Wendy and let her know.

Won't somebody who knows who we are talking about (I don't!) name names please so people don't have to guess? I'm sure some people would like to know who is doing this. And why should the instructor get to decide what is talked about here.

Won't somebody who knows who we are talking about (I don't!) name names please so people don't have to guess? I'm sure some people would like to know who is doing this. And why should the instructor get to decide what is talked about here.[/QUOTE]

I have no clue who,is being discussed and yes I would like to know. I would like to know who does this kind of thing.

Maybe Wendy should make this decision!?

In case people missed, it was the grooveshark site that was violating copyright law, not any fitness instructors, at least not directly. Here's the news on it:

http://www.thestar.com.my/Tech/Tech-...stry-pressure/

Deleted because someone else had a point of saying may be Wendy should decide, although I am not above giving her name for everyone to be aware of. Anyone who wants to know pm me and I will be more than happy to give her name.

I have no clue who,is being discussed and yes I would like to know. I would like to know who does this kind of thing.[/QUOTE]

I would like to know, too. Even if her workouts were stellar and gave me the strength of Popeye on spinach, this is unethical behavior, and I wouldn't do the workouts, even if they were free.

As long as people don't tell lies about an instructor, I'm not sure why we shouldn't know who is doing this.

The instructor is breaking the rules. Talking about an instructor is not breaking the rules. If we can't know who is doing it, then she (I'm assuming a she) is getting what she wants.

I do think it's between LoraC and Wendy. I'm not opposed to seeing it posted here, but I'm not 100% sure that who I think it is is right, so I will not post the instructor's name. Nothing like calling someone out and you're wrong.

I do think it's in some musicians' best interest to allow their music to be used for exercise videos. It could be great exposure for them. I know I've checked out the song list on some videos because I liked some of the tunes I'd heard. I'm not very in touch with the music scene, so it can be a great way to get your name out amongst a different demographic.

Securing licensing rights for music is both a complex and a fairly expensive process, especially for newer music. The amount that is charged varies depending on the song, the performers, the usage (streamed vs DVD), and the duration of use. Often larger companies such as Les Mills rely on cheaper cover versions to avoid paying the hefty licensing fees, which can easily cut significantly into their profit margins.

Censorship has no place in this forum, certainly not from instructors.

Lora, I think it is horrible that any instructor would try to intimidate you for your perfectly acceptable post.

I think you should post her name. Don't let her get away with sneaky, behind-the-scenes intimidation tactics!!!

If nothing else, I think you should post a few hints about who it is.

Tacky tacky tacky! Talk about having thin skin! :mad:

I don't think it's ART method, because I've seen it mentioned many times here, while there's what I thought was Bizzie's new way of spelling Buti on a check-in title (But!), so... that's my guess.
But it doesn't matter who it is, or if she asked nicely, it's not acceptable for an instructor to contact a member to ask that they edit or delete a post. He/she should discuss any issues with Wendy.

If I'm reading this post correctly, this thread was about music and the instructor contacted the original poster telling her to remove the thread?

That's bully behavior and reprehensible.

.

If I'm understanding the issue fully, the instructor asked her to remove her comment about music BECAUSE the instructor is using music without rights.

If this is so, then the instructor is a bully with very questionable business practices.