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-   -   Copying of VF reviews on other sites (was Someone also copied my review @ Collage!) (http://forum.videofitness.com/showthread.php?t=143291)

lulubell 01-11-10 10:41 PM

Copying of VF reviews on other sites (was Someone also copied my review @ Collage!)
 
I was checking the Lalo 2 reviews and I see one I wrote, I can't remember which forum on Jan 2. but I never posted it! I can't believe this and someone else had the same thing happen! I emailed Collage and asked them to remove it and suggest they get to the bottom of it whether it's someone on their staff or Lalo's people...I wish we could find out as this is sooo not right!!

Aggie

KathAL79 01-11-10 10:46 PM

Wow! :eek: One incident reflects poorly upon both Collage and Lalo's people, but two confirms that someone with an interest in promoting Lalo's DVDs is deliberately seeking out reviews to post on vendor sites and that Collage has a poor system for checking to see if reviews are coming from legitimate sources.

For those who missed it, here's the other thread on a review cut from VF and pasted onto Collage's reviews.

keilan00 01-12-10 02:31 AM

That's not cool. Lalo and his peeps are going to be in the VF doghouse now!

naturallove 01-12-10 04:34 AM

Unacceptable! :mad: I started the other thread about having my review copied, and I had an ugly feeling that I wasn't the only one. I hope Collage clears this up ASAP!
P.S. Aggie-make sure you keep Wendy in the loop on this situation.

ldy_solana 01-12-10 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keilan00 (Post 1479384)
That's not cool. Lalo and his peeps are going to be in the VF doghouse now!

i was just thinking the same thing. that and the OP of the other thread mentioned she didn't even get an apology from collage from all this. i know its just a review,but i would feel violated if it were my words up there. i don't know who is doing it but its shameful and it will keep me from buying/posting reviews at collage until the matter is brought to light on WHO is doing this.

kassia

acescholar 01-12-10 06:27 AM

Since the person who plagiarized those reviews on Collage obviously reads VF, I hope they are reading these recent VF posts and can see the damage they are causing Lalofit.

Perhaps because I'm an academic, I am really troubled by this copying of other peoples' work without permission. I have been on the fence (and ready to spring) about ordering Lalofit2, but I'm off for now until this gets sorted out.

naturallove 01-12-10 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acescholar (Post 1479403)
Perhaps because I'm an academic, I am really troubled by this copying of other peoples' work without permission. I have been on the fence (and ready to spring) about ordering Lalofit2, but I'm off for now until this gets sorted out.

I think that's why it bothered me so much as well. I too, am an academic, and I understand the importance of acknowledging other people's thoughts and work. :( Perhaps someone should write to Lalo and let him know what's going on. He should at least have a chance to respond, given that this has the potential to negatively affect his future sales.

Gaylene 01-12-10 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acescholar (Post 1479403)
Since the person who plagiarized those reviews on Collage obviously reads VF, I hope they are reading these recent VF posts and can see the damage they are causing Lalofit.

Perhaps because I'm an academic, I am really troubled by this copying of other peoples' work without permission. I have been on the fence (and ready to spring) about ordering Lalofit2, but I'm off for now until this gets sorted out.

Oy, that's beyond unethical if someone with a financial interest is lifting the reviews of other people! I thought that Collage would implement a new policy and accept some accountability for reviews after the Tracey Staehle Strike Zone fiasco, when it was obvious that a lot of reviews were being "planted", but it appeared that the only action that they took was to shut down any further reviews on that DVD.

On a side note, yesterday at Amazon I was looking at Mimi Solaire's Yin Yoga DVD, and noticed that in the item description, a review was given and credited as "Video Fitness Reviews"- the same review that appears here (a very good one!) by JustSandra. I was wondering if she or WWWendy had given permission for that to appear, or is permission even necessary? As long as the source is given, is Internet content considered to be public property and can be lifted and used in that way?

mtnmom 01-12-10 10:11 AM

I have complained both here and on Collage's forum. There's no accountability for reviews at Collage. You don't need to register, you can submit reviews multiple times.

Gaylene mentioned you can no longer place reviews for Strike Zone. I was able to pull up the review form with no problem, although the last review posted was July, 2009. So not sure if new reviews are being posted or not.

One that gets me is the number of reviews (raving) of Jari's Extremely Ripped. Most were posted on the day that the DVD was released. I asked on the "Ask Collage" forum, just how that could have happened. It was other forum members that suggested people got their DVDs from other sources earlier than Collage's release date. Collage never did answer my question. I don't believe for a minute that all those reviews were from unbiased consumers.

I've suggested they impose a way of limiting an IP address to one review of any single DVD. I suspect that's not going to happen.

This thing with Lalofit I believe is a fan or staff member of Lalo's. I think not only should Collage be advised, but Lalo as well. I don't think he, personally, is responsible and should know.

Sue B 01-12-10 10:59 AM

Is this (copying of VF reviews) happening with any other DVDs besides Lalo's? If not, then I doubt anyone at Collage is doing it, unless they have a thousand surplus Lalo DVDs to unload quickly.

bubbles76 01-12-10 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnmom (Post 1479540)
I've suggested they impose a way of limiting an IP address to one review of any single DVD. I suspect that's not going to happen.

Collage wants all the positive reviews, false or not, so that people will buy the DVD. They may not have started it, but they are not doing anything to help the situation. I wonder if they used lulubell's name on the review as well?

JustSandra 01-12-10 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaylene (Post 1479471)
On a side note, yesterday at Amazon I was looking at Mimi Solaire's Yin Yoga DVD, and noticed that in the item description, a review was given and credited as "Video Fitness Reviews"- the same review that appears here (a very good one!) by JustSandra.

Yikes! :eek: I checked it out, and actually it is Denise R's review that was copied, not mine. From the opening sentence, it also looks like the comments were found in the General Discussion section, not the Reviews section. At Amazon it is set apart from the regular consumer reviews with the star ratings. (In fact, Beth/Toaster's review is the consumer section, and I'm sure Beth submitted it that way.) In this case, I'd really like to know if Amazon and/or Mimi Solaire's group sought permission from Denise R and/or WWWendy to quote the review and ascribe it to "Video Fitness Reviews." I'd also appreciate a clarification re whether anything we write for VF's regular review section (or heck, just in the General Discussion section) can be quoted that way.

ETA: Here's the link to the Amazon review: http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Stretch-Y...3312042&sr=1-1

suegy3 01-12-10 12:44 PM

If my review was copied, I would contact Lalo and ask him about it. It really does seem like it's someone from his company.

WWWendy 01-12-10 12:47 PM

No, I did not and would not give permission for copying of VF reviews or forum posts elsewhere. It's up to the individual who WROTE the review to decide whether or not they wish to share it elsewhere, and if I ever get such a request I always forward it to the reviewer so that the reviewer can decide.

On the Amazon review, that looks a little different--we are listed as an Editorial review. I'm not sure about their policy on Editorial reviews or how that was added (can the publisher post or request that Amazon post an editorial review?). I noticed they did not use the reviewer's name, either. Has anyone else noticed VF reviews appearing as an Editorial Review on Amazon? I don't think a VF review should be listed this way, even if they had gotten permission. First, VF reviews are consumer reviews just like any others on Amazon, and more importantly, since VF does not post one single review of a workout that represents the consensus of the site--a lone positive VF review could be selected and posted in this way for a workout that had mostly NEGATIVE reviews on VF, yet on Amazon it would appear that the VF editorial consensus was entirely positive. That bothers me a lot, and is something I need to contact Amazon about.

We used to have something in the footer of review pages stating that reviews could not be copied or used elsewhere w/o the permission of the reviewer. I will make sure that gets added to our new review section too, and I am also going to add something to our vendor/commercial posting page making it clear that permission of the poster/reviewer must be obtained before any reviews are copied or used elsewhere. I would have thought that was obvious, but evidently not.

Helen S 01-12-10 12:49 PM

I'm also guessing that it's Lalo's people since both reviews are for for Lalofit.

beth22 01-12-10 01:13 PM

These situations are just so bizarre. I'm in shock that this is happening! :eek: Did Lalo's people (if they are the one's that did this) think VFers wouldn't find out??? If so, how naive could they be!?!?!

KathAL79 01-12-10 02:13 PM

Wow, I'm not cool at all with reviews copied from VF, either represented as consumer reviews at Collage or as editorial reviews at Amazon. Wendy, thank you for getting to the bottom of this, and I'm sorry you have to deal with this on top of all else that you do.

Personally I have not nor ever would give someone permission to copy my reviews and/or posts. If I want to post a review elsewhere, I'll do it myself, thank you very much!
I agree that it's weird to have one VF review posted as the VF "editorial board." But then it actually bugs me that so many DVDs I've reviewed just have my review listed. I'd hate for people to consider my review the last and final word on something!

I guess the only upside is that people are recognizing VF as a prime source of reviews and information on videos. Still, why not just point people in our direction? Oh wait, because we bring up both the good and the bad!

What production company is responsible for Mimi Solaire's? And for Lalo's? If it's the same, it looks like our culprit may be an employee for the company.

JustSandra 01-12-10 02:42 PM

WWWendy, thanks for the clarification!

Lisa C 01-12-10 03:40 PM

I did just add something to the reviews system stating that reviews cannot be copied without the writer's permission. That doesn't really help reviews taken from the forum, though, unless they read the rules.

It seems obvious that you shouldn't copy from one place to another without permission, though, so obviously whoever did it, doesn't care. It seems likely that it was someone associated with Lalo, because why else would someone do it?

KathAL79 01-12-10 04:26 PM

Thank you, Lisa, for adding the blurb to the reviews.

Threads on the VF forum shouldn't come up via search engines (in other words, if you type in "Lalo Fuentes" on Google or Yahoo or whatever, none of the VF threads on Lalo should pop up, although VF reviews might), so someone has to be reading VF deliberately. You know who you are, and you should be ashamed of yourself!

InstantBlue 01-12-10 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KathAL79 (Post 1479899)
Threads on the VF forum shouldn't come up via search engines (in other words, if you type in "Lalo Fuentes" on Google or Yahoo or whatever, none of the VF threads on Lalo should pop up, although VF reviews might), so someone has to be reading VF deliberately. You know who you are, and you should be ashamed of yourself!

Maybe they shouldn't, but they do show up in Google searches. This thread is on page two of the Google results when you search "Lalo Fuentes review".

KathAL79 01-12-10 04:48 PM

Weird, because I just did a search for "Lalo Fuentes" in Yahoo and didn't get any VF hits. :confused:
ETA: I did do the same search you did on Yahoo and only got this thread. Maybe I've just misunderstood the bit about being able to find VF threads via search engines.

Ximena 01-12-10 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnmom (Post 1479540)
I have complained both here and on Collage's forum. There's no accountability for reviews at Collage. You don't need to register, you can submit reviews multiple times.

Gaylene mentioned you can no longer place reviews for Strike Zone. I was able to pull up the review form with no problem, although the last review posted was July, 2009. So not sure if new reviews are being posted or not.

One that gets me is the number of reviews (raving) of Jari's Extremely Ripped. Most were posted on the day that the DVD was released. I asked on the "Ask Collage" forum, just how that could have happened. It was other forum members that suggested people got their DVDs from other sources earlier than Collage's release date. Collage never did answer my question. I don't believe for a minute that all those reviews were from unbiased consumers.

I've suggested they impose a way of limiting an IP address to one review of any single DVD. I suspect that's not going to happen.

This thing with Lalofit I believe is a fan or staff member of Lalo's. I think not only should Collage be advised, but Lalo as well. I don't think he, personally, is responsible and should know.

I agree Diane, I think we should ask Collage Jari or Lalo's people before we jump into conclusions. Collage is a great company and I don't find the need for them to do that, and Lalo's people pasting reviews or Jari's people making up reviews? I also don't think that's the case. But again, Never say never. I would like to see what they have to say. Did anybody already wrote to Collage or Lalo asking about this?

Lucky Star 01-12-10 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtnmom (Post 1479540)
I've suggested they impose a way of limiting an IP address to one review of any single DVD. I suspect that's not going to happen.

I, too, suspect not. Collage *is* a business and let's face it, the more positive reviews they have, the better for them.

bee1forfitness 01-12-10 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen S (Post 1479703)
I'm also guessing that it's Lalo's people since both reviews are for for Lalofit.

But shouldn't we find out for sure before saying "it's Lalo's people" maybe it's not, could be some nutty fan of his or just some lazy unethical people/person. I'm just saying

lissalaurel76 01-12-10 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWendy (Post 1479701)
No, I did not and would not give permission for copying of VF reviews or forum posts elsewhere. It's up to the individual who WROTE the review to decide whether or not they wish to share it elsewhere, and if I ever get such a request I always forward it to the reviewer so that the reviewer can decide.

On the Amazon review, that looks a little different--we are listed as an Editorial review. I'm not sure about their policy on Editorial reviews or how that was added (can the publisher post or request that Amazon post an editorial review?). I noticed they did not use the reviewer's name, either. Has anyone else noticed VF reviews appearing as an Editorial Review on Amazon? I don't think a VF review should be listed this way, even if they had gotten permission. First, VF reviews are consumer reviews just like any others on Amazon, and more importantly, since VF does not post one single review of a workout that represents the consensus of the site--a lone positive VF review could be selected and posted in this way for a workout that had mostly NEGATIVE reviews on VF, yet on Amazon it would appear that the VF editorial consensus was entirely positive. That bothers me a lot, and is something I need to contact Amazon about.

We used to have something in the footer of review pages stating that reviews could not be copied or used elsewhere w/o the permission of the reviewer. I will make sure that gets added to our new review section too, and I am also going to add something to our vendor/commercial posting page making it clear that permission of the poster/reviewer must be obtained before any reviews are copied or used elsewhere. I would have thought that was obvious, but evidently not.

I see VF reviews listed in the editorial details info on Amazon ALL the time. ALL the time, seriously. I just assumed people knew their reviews were being used this way, or that you knew, Wendy. I wish, now, that I had made a note as to all the titles on which I've seen VFers quoted. I mean, really, I've seen it ALOT.

lissalaurel76 01-12-10 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InstantBlue (Post 1479906)
Maybe they shouldn't, but they do show up in Google searches. This thread is on page two of the Google results when you search "Lalo Fuentes review".

yep, I was just gonna post that. You can easily google any user name here, any instructor, any title, etc... and VF threads show up.

kali1 01-12-10 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bee1forfitness (Post 1480034)
But shouldn't we find out for sure before saying "it's Lalo's people" maybe it's not, could be some nutty fan of his or just some lazy unethical people/person. I'm just saying

I agree. It could be someone from Collage.

kali1 01-12-10 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lissalaurel76 (Post 1480134)
I see VF reviews listed in the editorial details info on Amazon ALL the time. ALL the time, seriously. I just assumed people knew their reviews were being used this way, or that you knew, Wendy. I wish, now, that I had made a note as to all the titles on which I've seen VFers quoted. I mean, really, I've seen it ALOT.

Same here. Also, I've seen many vendors cut and copy reviews from Amazon onto their site.

lulubell 01-12-10 10:13 PM

I just wanted to let you all know that I got an e-mail from Collage saying the same thing as they did to Naturallove...also no apologies or any thing at all as to whether they would look into it..almost like they know. Anyways I also don't like to blame anyone...I mean how can we really know for sure unless someone comes out and says it.

Aggie

KathAL79 01-13-10 12:07 AM

I'm going to email this suggestion to Wendy, passing it on from my dh, about letting consumer alert sites know that people, most likely with financial interest in selling videos, are selectively cutting and pasting forum posts onto sites as official reviews. This is a small drop in a big pond of reviewer fraud (if we think this is a big deal, the video game industry has seen far, far worse, apparently), but since it's New Year's Resolution time people looking for honest opinions on videos deserve to know that reviews at places like Amazon and Collage may be doctored. (Yes, yes, I know common sense, grain of salt, and all of that, but not everyone's up with those things!)

WWWendy 01-13-10 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lissalaurel76 (Post 1480134)
I see VF reviews listed in the editorial details info on Amazon ALL the time. ALL the time, seriously. I just assumed people knew their reviews were being used this way, or that you knew, Wendy. I wish, now, that I had made a note as to all the titles on which I've seen VFers quoted. I mean, really, I've seen it ALOT.

That is distressing, and no, I didn't know about it until this thread. I have an email in to Amazon and got a response a few hours later saying it had been forwarded to the relevant department for a response, but it helps for me to know that this is a widespread issue. If anyone runs across one or more Amazon titles with a VF review listed under "Editorial Reviews" please drop me a quick email at wendy@videofitness.com with the URL of the page (or the ASIN number of the workout). Please put "VF review on Amazon" in the subject line to help me keep them organized. Again, I'm only concerned about the ones that appear in the Editorial Reviews section, not the ones that a VFer has contributed herself to Amazon that may be the same or similar to the one she submitted to VF.

I assume that the video publisher or distributor is adding these reviews, or does Amazon do that? I've asked that in my email to Amazon, but I'm really curious how that comes about.

I'm going to have to give some thought to header/footer language to go on VF reviews as well as every page of the forum that makes it clear that reviews and comments about video cannot be used without permission, can't be used for commercial purposes, and that all reviews represent one consumer's opinion do not represent the editorial opinion of videofitness.com. That may at least make a few people more wary of using our reviews that way.

herya 01-13-10 07:33 AM

Wendy, a quick Google search ("videofitness.com" editorial site:.amazon.com) gives me these results - but there might be more:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...cm_rdp_product
http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Burning-Fu.../dp/B000ZZT7BS
http://www.amazon.com/Latin-Kick-Kic...ion/B0002D125W
http://www.amazon.com/Shiva-Collecti.../dp/B001Y44DN6
http://www.amazon.com/Weights-II-Int...ion/B000092WDN
http://www.amazon.com/Bollywood-Burn...ion/B000WH5AX8
http://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Nature-Ba...ion/B00005Y7A6

Hope this helps.

roz 01-13-10 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbles76 (Post 1479609)
Collage wants all the positive reviews, false or not, so that people will buy the DVD. They may not have started it, but they are not doing anything to help the situation. I wonder if they used lulubell's name on the review as well?

Honestly, I think that anger or comments should be directed at Lalo. Perhaps Collage doesn't have the best vetting system, but ultimately Lalo's people are responsible. Collage does not just post positive reviews. There are plenty of negative ones there.
I sent Lalo a comment.

kali1 01-13-10 09:03 AM

Wendy, can we have this thread stickied? That way if later on, if people come across a concern, they can look at this thread.

Vintage VFer 01-13-10 09:14 AM

I'd be stunned if anyone used one of MY reviews. Mine are usually gripes. :p

Janga 01-13-10 09:22 AM

It is annoying but it is just the nature of the internet, people habitually copy and paste things without attribution and few people recognize that is stealing the intellectual property of others.

antbuko 01-13-10 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbles76 (Post 1479609)
Collage wants all the positive reviews, false or not, so that people will buy the DVD. They may not have started it, but they are not doing anything to help the situation. I wonder if they used lulubell's name on the review as well?

Have we verified that Collage isn't doing anything about it? This problem just came to light recently. I think Collage needs to be made aware of it first before we can say they aren't doing anything about it, and by being made aware, I mean it needs to be escalated to someone in charge and clearly pointed out that these two incidences have occurred in connection to the same video. Even though both VF reviewers may have requested the reviews be removed, it's entirely possible that a connection at Collage's end might not have been made yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roz (Post 1480268)
Honestly, I think that anger or comments should be directed at Lalo. Perhaps Collage doesn't have the best vetting system, but ultimately Lalo's people are responsible. Collage does not just post positive reviews. There are plenty of negative ones there.
I sent Lalo a comment.

I do think that Collage needs to establish a vetting system for reviews. I still suspect Lalo's people are responsible. It's just so naive for vendors to pull stuff like this.

WWWendy 01-13-10 10:10 AM

Marta, thanks for those links, and I've stickied the thread.

I just remembered that one of my friends from high school works for Amazon (a high level technical person) so maybe I can contact him for advice if I need it.

A number of those Amazon editorial "reviews" seem to be short quotes, which might be "fair use" under copyright but I'm still concerned that they are representing a single consumer's comment as the editorial opinion of this site, because there is no such thing as an editorial review at VF, and for potential Amazon customers, IMO our reviews shouldn't carry any more weight than your average Amazon customer review does.

lindseylu8 01-13-10 11:21 AM

I personally dont think Collage should be held responsible for this. They always seem to be getting a bad rap.


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